Languages of the different races?

[Quantus]

Following to http://pswiki.xordan.com/ there should be different languages for
    * Xacha
    * Ylian
    * Nolthrir
    * Dermorian
    * Stonebreaker
    * Hammerwielder
    * Lemur
    * Kran
    * Diaboli
    * Enkidukai
    * Klyros
    * Ynnwn
,but didn't have some of them the same roots? Such as Nolthrir and Dermorian, which are both elves. And since Ynnwn are crossed between Elves and Diaboli, do they gave something in common?

[
I played some days with the Tolkin's elven language and found, that it colorizes the RP a lot. Do we want an artifical language, which could be build with tools like from http://www.langmaker.com/db/Main_Page, or do we preferr the common english one?
Another importand question I have: "Is Tolkin to OOC?"

I would really like to hear some opinions.
Diola lle as the Elve says for Thank you
]

[Holdan]

Elvish is a cool language and all, but ps was designed to be unique. Like the stonebreaker language, and enkidukai they arent from another game, story, or movie. Well... At least I don't think so. I do agree that Ynwnn dermorian and nolthir should have a very similar language. Or atleast have ynwnn be a cross of dermorian and diaboli.

[Hilon]

Here are two other threads along the same idea:

In game lanuguages
Enkien - This makes sense of it all

Hope these help with some of your questions.

[Suvok]

Another point is that in RL, some languages like English are a mixture of many languages that were invaded or have been invaded by. Maybe it depends more on their histories together. Like the Ynwnn, they may be a crossbreed but they do not have a history (so far) of living with the elves or diaboli, so they would not have picked up the language.

[joshua6021]

I would really like to see a language group created for each race, there would be many problems in doing so. First off, everyone who used a certain race would have to dedicate time to learn this language. It is not impossible but to think about how hard it is to learn Japanese, Korean, or NeoTibetian syntaxes for the average person could give you a clear ideal. If there were languages I would feel the only solution would be lingua Fracas derived from the obvious Lingua franca being used now, English.  If you could get enough people together that would dedicate enough time as well as energy in the game to spread it, then it might work. I suggest to you not using Race but Guild origin as markers for the language. Inside the guilds you and your friends could put forth the energy to create use and store this new Language, Dialect, Pidgin, what ever have you, and possibly spread it. I am always up for new ideals that include brain work so if you feel the itch to really try this please send me a message, and I will help and be more than happy to learn your ideals. Josh

[joshua6021]

Well Just to add a though here. I just looked through the sites for Enkidukaien and I must say what a creative undertaking yet such a waste of time. I would like to see people speaking this, and I would like to use it as well! It seems how ever folks are a bit too unwilling to do so. Also, there needs to be a group to creature more vocabulary. I pieced through it for a while and was not even able to write a complete list of Information words. It is some place to start however. So look there if you have the time. One other note. I see that this language is honorific to a point. So why does an Enki take more time to speak to a peasant than a noble or friend. Shouldn't that be the opposite?

[Unnamed_Source]

You have a game based on english and players that are not native English speakers, now you are asking them to learn aa whole new language that its only use is here. So not only do they have to comunicate through english to understand the game but in additon a new language or two or five so they can RP. Yeah! I don't think so. How about we just open it up so we can all speak our native tongue(s) and see how far that takes RP,

If you want to add laguages, add them in game with a text scrambler. Meaning, your Character will have to learn that language or get garbled up text when listening to a foreign tongue or trying to speak that foreign tongue. Another skill to train or a mind slot "book" like the crafts.(book of blades, book of Krannese) this way everyone can speak english and the game dedides if you speak/comprehend Kran or not.

[Karyuu]

You have a game based on english and players that are not native English speakers, now you are asking them to learn aa whole new language that its only use is here.

No one is asking this of anyone. The languages are a player-initiative for the most part, and you will never need to learn another language to do anything in the game.

[Unnamed_Source]

The languages are a player-initiative for the most part,

Key word in there PLAYER not character -initiative. something the PLAYER brings in from the real life world, other words OOC.

If you let things like this slide, eventually you'll end up with clicks that exclude not based on ic circumstances but solely by an OOC means. An elf being excluded from guild cause he doesn't know an outside source elven language. Even though he's an elf and supposedly he should know his own elvish tongue. If you allow this, why not allow a group of Japanese to play inhabitants from the other side of the stalagmite, they can speak Japanese to themselves and exclude all other. Even if all Kran guild/group, they can just exclude by proxy any other Kran that can't understand.

I can show you a few MMO's that have opened up the language barrier and even though the official language is English, the games consist of real life ethnic groups where ic policies matter little and instead of the classic elf vs orc scenario you'll have elves vs elves rescuing orcs cause they are Japanese and we are Koreans. Literally, groups/guilds/clans will be partitioned based on the language spoken with in and with little IC consideration.

Bitterness will come from this. I make an dwarf but are left of of RP from the main dwarven clan cause I supposedly don't know dwarvish or I need constant translations into english and thus ignored. So eventually I find the main guild in PS, made up of the other races that "don't know" their perspective languages. Instead of race vs race or level vs level it will be "small language clicks" vs "small language click" vs everyone else during conflicting/major RPs. So the RP will come from OOC means and I can get that from a PK MMO.(ie NO RP

[Karyuu]

I think you're blowing this extremely out of proportion

Some of races do have their own separate languages. There is a real Enkidukai tongue that Darkmoon, our Settings Dep leader, was working on for quite a bit. The StoneBreaker language had the most player contributions (thanks to Arka). However, the "horror scenarios" you have so eagerly laid out for us are not bound to happen. One, because our community will realize the sheer idiocy of guilds that restrict players because they haven't "learned a language," and two, because these languages are not going to be used all the time. The GMs make sure of that. If someone is using a non-English language, even if it is for example Enkidukai and thus officially belongs in the setting, for an extended amount of time and it's confusing people, they will ask the participants to switch back to English.

Therefore, you can relax.

[Unnamed_Source]

The GMs make sure of that.

I've been on at times when there are no GMs for long periods. Hopefully in the future there will be a whole lot more of you on 24/7 so the general populace won't be made felt to be left out of the loop.

And as "official" as they may be, they are still an OOC source.

The guild language restrictions won't be as bold as to be bars to be measured up to. That will be too easy to correct via staff enforcement. No, the lack of  RP because of language barriers will isolate those that know it from those that don't. Eventually the players(not characters) will migrate to guilds that they can enjoy RP'n in. Ones that speak a common toungue.

You'll be more that happily allowed to join a guild but then you realize that most of the RP is in a language you can't comprehend, you will most likely depart on your own. What would a Russian RPer with no english comprehension do when he stumbled on PS. he's savvy enough to download, install, and run with no glitches. Now he's here for the RP and finds only english, does he stick around and hope someone will speak in russian or will he leave frustrated with the language barrier? same thing with these race guilds,

people will join cause they picked the same race, see that they are excluded from RP by the language, and leave it. these language/races guilds will eventually become isolated, Primarily through ooc knowledge that they exclusively speak in a foreign tongue. Eventually there will be those that start to question and form their own language guilds, except these will be based on RL. Like the others, they won't exclude any player from joining but will eventually drive them off  by the shear lack of social exchange.(RP and other wise)

These are not "Horror Scenarios" out of fiction, I've seen this happen in other MMOs and if left unchecked, it too will happen here. Not over night but through gradual and long term means.  Good luck.

[Karyuu]

You're reacting as though people will actually learn these in-character languages to such an extent as to have a whole series of conversations :] I don't see this happening. I see the languages being used for RP writing, to embellish announcements, for here-and-there phrases, and similar small manifestations. These RP languages are not going to take over PlaneShift - trust me, no large group of people is going to extend such an amount of time and effort as to learn a whole new tongue for a single game, on a scale that will make others feel an excluded minority.

Also, guilds based on races are usually discouraged. They do form occasionally, but look at the critiques in the Guild forum - people take a very strong stand with "You need more material," "You need to have good reasons," etc.

There are certain rules in PlaneShift, one of which is English must be the language used in public chat. Even if no GMs are online when someone launches into a non-English prose for hours, if enough reports are made about the same person (or group of people) breaking this rule, the GM team will investigate, and warnings will be given out (if not further actions).

[Unnamed_Source]

I see one of us hasn't been to a trekie convention. well make that two of us.

People learn and USE Klingon WRITEN AND SPOKEN, yes exclusively with other nerds of the federation. Elven is a freak'n language that you can learn, if you didn't know. Yes, used exclusively by the pointy eared geeks of Middle Earth.. Just kidding about the name calling, if you are into all that, I commend you for your effort.

It is human nature to form packs based on common traits, our monkey ancestors did it for survival and unfortunately we have inherited it and yet to have evolved out of it.

Some people WILL learn, as they have leartn klingon elven and god knows what else, and those will bond through this commonality. even if they can't form guilds they will still group exclusively cause they can draw a circle around themselves setting them apart from the rest through this invisable language fence. True this will happen no matter what but if encouraged by the rules it will happen like my "horror scenario".

[Eagel]

Let me say something...
An in-game language is just a nice touch in your RP... you can decide if you want to use it or not.

Is not an obligation if you're an Enki, that you must use that language... according the settings, all the races came from outside (except Lemurs and Krans) and seems that everyone has forgotten their roots... Look at the Feline's Lair website... They say that have founded many ancients Enkien manuscripts... of course, this is RP too.
So, it's not that crazy if you roleplay that your character (an Enki) has forgot his ancient language and scripture, and now the new enkien babys talk the Yliakum common tongue...
To make a commparison with RL... look at those immigrant who left their home to stablish in other country, their childs start to talk in the tongue of the country they live, otherwise they will be out of society.

I see that this language is honorific to a point. So why does an Enki take more time to speak to a peasant than a noble or friend. Shouldn't that be the opposite?

If you see, the high ranked Enkis are inside D'sars talking about political issues and have little time to speak to low ranked Enkis. So, they (Enkidukai) have a large set of words that can use with their equals, and more restricted to talk to superiors.
In RL your set of words is very large when you talk to a friend than when you talk to a teacher or boss, for example.
I hope you understand my point...

[Karyuu]

Unnamed_Source: Encouraged by what rules? People have been making up their own languages even before any of this work was presented on the forum There were player-made languages back in version 0.2 of the game, if not earlier. We can't prevent people from doing this, so would you rather have us publicly frown at such efforts instead? We already have rules in place forbidding non-English in public chat channels. What the players do in private is their own business.