Should you be punished for responding to an off topic post?

[Garile]

Emeraldfool

Did you read what Zanzibar actually said in the post you quoted? Zanzibar also made a point to say there would be no warnings in such a case. I personally don't see it come up if it was not a ban or a warning.

[Vengeance]

In the case Zanz is referring to, the person in question has been warned of his behavior, argumentativeness and posting habits on numerous occasions and several people have *begged* me to ban this person.  Nothing that happens to this person will be a surprise, only the timing of it, given how long this person has skated by without getting banned.

Also, I don't see a one-day ban as a punishment per se, but as a way of keeping arguments from escalating and keeping the forums from getting overly polluted.

[emeraldfool]

In the case Zanz is referring to, the person in question has been warned of his behavior, argumentativeness and posting habits on numerous occasions and several people have *begged* me to ban this person.

Uh, you're not talking about me are you, 'cause I can totally explain everything

You see, there's these voices in my head, and they... No, shut up, I'm trying to talk here... They tell me to do things that...
Wait, nevermind.

Did you read what Zanzibar actually said in the post you quoted? Zanzibar also made a point to say there would be no warnings in such a case. I personally don't see it come up if it was not a ban or a warning.

I didn't read any of that. I already know what actually happened, why would I bother with Zanzi's version?

[zanzibar]

Personally I think the punishment should be contingent on the situation. For example, if one was to go about digging up 2-year-old threads just to prove a point - completely against forum policy - they should be punished regardless of whether the thread goes 'mostly' off-topic. Just a random example of course...

The thread was relevant to recent events on the forum.  Why make a new thread if the old one will do?  I wasn't bumping a thread "just to prove a point".  Anyway, this is off topic.

In the case Zanz is referring to, the person in question has been warned of his behavior, argumentativeness and posting habits on numerous occasions and several people have *begged* me to ban this person.  Nothing that happens to this person will be a surprise, only the timing of it, given how long this person has skated by without getting banned.

Also, I don't see a one-day ban as a punishment per se, but as a way of keeping arguments from escalating and keeping the forums from getting overly polluted.

By "argumentativeness", Vengeance means I have a habit of defending myself when people say things about me that I disagree with.

The reason I'm not banned is because I don't actually do anything wrong.  Not much, anyway, and nothing worthy of a ban.  I'm stubborn, I take unpopular positions, and I go off topic once in a while.  Big deal.

I've found that the people who are the most critical of me usually have grudges which have nothing to do with what they complain about.  For that reason, it's difficult to take their criticism seriously.

[emeraldfool]

I don't have a grudge against you I find you annoying, but actually I rather like you. There's something compelling about your total disregard for social etiquette
In other words, I would kinda miss you if you were banned...

[zanzibar]

I don't have a grudge against you I find you annoying, but actually I rather like you. There's something compelling about your total disregard for social etiquette
In other words, I would kinda miss you if you were banned...

I know.

(But you also haven't "begged" Vengeance to ban me and my comment was refering only to such individuals.)

[Vengeance]

To anyone who reads this:  If you assume I was talking about you in my previous post this thread, you probably deserve to be banned. :-P

[zanzibar]

To anyone who reads this:  If you assume I was talking about you in my previous post this thread, you probably deserve to be banned. :-P

You've said such things to me before, so I see no error in my assumption.  It's unlikely that you were refering to someone else given the descriptors in you post and given the fact that I've never seen you address anyone else here with such a level of simultaneous disdain and indifference.

Of course while you make your statements in a nonchalant manner I still find them to be empty.  I've been warned not to do things I haven't done.  There are individuals who dislike me and have then gone to complain about things which are unrelated or fictional.  What you've called "argumentativeness" is seen by others as defending oneself from offensive and false accusations and charges.

So yes, there are people who call me names, and one hopes that they'll grow out of it.

[bilbous]

There is one thing that seems kind of odd to me, and I think this may be a cause of some of the problems here. Should 'topic' be defined narrowly or broadly? For example, this post about the definition of topic could be considered both on and off-topic depending on how narrowly you wish to define the term. To me this is on topic because you cannot discuss a punishment for being off-topic without agreeing what is off-topic. Strictly speaking however it can be construed to be off topic because the specific topic is about punishment which this post is not.

If I had to adhere to the specific topic every time I do not suppose I would say very much and I am sure there would be some people who would appreciate it. I think if everyone else did the same this would be a very quiet place. The comments I do make usually have some kind of connection with the topic although I admit to making the occasional bad joke off of some OT thing someone else has said.

When people post in a thread I start in a manner or direction I am not interested in I try to steer them back to what I would like to discuss and then abandon ship if unsuccessful. I do not really expect people to be punished because the discussion gravitated away from what I wanted to talk about. Sometimes the discussion comes back to the original topic on its own (as I seem to have done with this post) and I can pick up where I left off.

[emeraldfool]

What a clear, intelligent and well-thought-out post, Bilbous. And I agree with you completely.

Discussions are 3-dimensional - they don't just move along a single line, or thread, until they hit the end and then die. Discussions transcend the singular and encompass many points of view, and methods of thinking, and general opinions about what is and isn't relative to the conversation.

To a very scatter-brained person, bringing up their favourite brand of lawnmower could, in their opinion, add a lot to a discussion about Russian politics. They're not doing it out of spite or in an effort to derail the conversation, and they shouldn't be punished for thinking differently. That's why insane people go to an asylum, and not to prison. It's like shouting at a retard because he can't figure out algebra.

That's a very extreme example, but like Bilbous said, different people consider different things in different ways.
For example, if we were talking about terrorism in the Middle East, I might compare it to the inner-workings of the IRA, since many terrorists groups base their structures off of them. Perfectly acceptable, no? But someone else might be unfamiliar with the IRA, or simply state that since the thread is about Middle-Eastern terrorism, the IRA's activities and methods are off-topic. And that opinion is valid too.

Which one is correct? 

[neko kyouran]

Which one is correct? 

The one the mod and admin team say is correct.

[emeraldfool]

Which one is correct? 

The one the mod and admin team say is correct.

That's exactly my point. I'm not a mind-reader. How am I supposed to know whether the mod/admin would consider what I'm about to post as being over the line of off-topicalness?

Unless you want every single person on this forum to PM you their messages, and wait for your permission to post them, there's no real way of telling. Yet still it's deleted - and all that effort is gone - usually without warning... All based on the moderator's personal opinions.

[Idoru]

To a very scatter-brained person, bringing up their favourite brand of lawnmower could, in their opinion, add a lot to a discussion about Russian politics. They're not doing it out of spite or in an effort to derail the conversation, and they shouldn't be punished for thinking differently. That's why insane people go to an asylum, and not to prison. It's like shouting at a retard because he can't figure out algebra.

"I'm proud of my invention, but I'm sad that it is used by terrorists, I would prefer to have invented a machine that people could use and that would help farmers with their work - for example a lawnmower." ~~Mikhail Kalashnikov


Woohooo!!! I managed to turn that around to politics..... kinda  

Off-topic? Yes!

Which one is correct? 

The one the mod and admin team say is correct.

Even if the mod-squad think that was on topic, it wasnt. But in general that is correct. Mods/Admins make the rules, we are just here to break them

[neko kyouran]

For the record, no one has been banned for a day, at least not to my knowledge, so I really don't see why everyone is getting so bent out of shape.  I stayed quiet and let the topic take it's course for awhile now, and I think it's time that I gave my input.

Which one is correct? 

The one the mod and admin team say is correct.

That's exactly my point. I'm not a mind-reader. How am I supposed to know whether the mod/admin would consider what I'm about to post as being over the line of off-topicalness?

Unless you want every single person on this forum to PM you their messages, and wait for your permission to post them, there's no real way of telling. Yet still it's deleted - and all that effort is gone - usually without warning... All based on the moderator's personal opinions.

You are over reacting again.  One little post here and there isn't so bad.  It's when there is a clump of them together.  As example, 2 or 3 people go back and forth for half a thread page or more on how to make an apple muffin in a thread about how farmers will lose thier orange crop due to a bad frost just becuase someone mentioned that they should have switched to growing apples instead of oranges.

It's simple really, if you think there is a possibility that a post you want to make will be removed, it probably will.  So PM one of us, and we'll either give the go ahead, or say no.  We've done it in the past, and we'll more than likely continue to do it in the future.  We are here to answere questions you know.  It's not like we bite or anything, well, hard anyways.   

Now, typically when a forum goer reaches a certain amount of posts, we expect them to know a little better about how the forum is run and how things are handled.  And after a warning or two we expect you to learn that you shouldn't have an offtopic discussion, like my given example.  We expect you to know better and not do it, and if you do, well, then we pass judgement.  Most of the time, we simply remove all the off topic banter, but other times, a more strict approach is needed.  Consider it an iron glove wrapped in silk.

Now that that's settled, why don't we all go back to our happy little postings about cute kitten pictures or which rock band you like this week, or maybe about how you want to hook up with the latest guy/girl to post thier pic to the pictures thread, hmm, and you just leave the forum modding to the moderaters.

[bilbous]

OT Just curious here neko, is that an example of god-modding or would it have taken a lock to fit the description?