New Character Stat: Heroism (Legendary Status)

[zanzibar]

Edit:  Under the moon's post is a must read.  Here is the link:  http://hydlaa.com/smf/index.php?topic=27959.msg321044#msg321044

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Everyone who was playing in Molecular Blue was given a "ring of the past" which raises all their character stats by 20.  I think that's great.  I don't think there's a reason to give any more of the rings out, and I don't see any reason to take the rings out of the game.

Right now, it's pretty easy to max out your character.  I'm not sure how long it would take, but it would definately take much less than two years.  So it's possible to create a character and then in relatively little time make that character as powerful as any other character in the game.

So let's create a character stat that reflects how long you've been in the game!  It would have a similar effect as rings of the past, and it could even be used to make certain weapons "Heros only".  So there might be a sword or helm or hammer that you can only wield if you've been playing for a certain period of time.  You might have powerlevelled your character, but it won't matter because you haven't been around long enough.

What led me to think about this is how several characters have returned all around the same time who I used to have contact with including Amheh, Sirunie, and others.  A higher "Hero" stat would reflect the lore or reputation surrounding such characters - something that transcends and survives changing faces in the playerbase.

It should not matter if your character is good or evil, since there can be legends of any affiliation.  Monsters could also have status as heros or legends.  Certain spells might not work on targets with a legendary status which is too high or too low.  So there are a lot of possibilities.

[Garris Shrike]

Great idea, Zanzibar! I mulled this over some, and I must say that many of the old players do not get recognition, and it would be nice to have a sort of "role model" to look up to in the game for the newbs, and it would inspire more rping too.
Rping such as "hero quests", find a hero, locate the hero's sword, all sorts of fun stuff.

[Jackdaw]

I think it is a great idea but should be based on more than just how long you've played. For example, if I create a character and then don't play for a few years then should I get this kind of status just because of my character creation date? Or even just that I maxed out my stats, sword and armor and have been around for a while. I don't think Legendary Status should be given just because I spent the last 2 years camping spawn.

I would think that you could weight it based on creation date of a character along with a minimum number of quests done and certain skills trained. Maybe even include a certain number of GM events in which the individual has participated.

[zanzibar]

I would think that you could weigh it based on creation date of a character along with a minimum number of quests done and certain skills trained. Maybe even include a certain number of GM events in which the individual has participated.

I thought about that, but I think it would be a bad idea.  Training, questing, and doing GM events already reward your character with items and skills.  The legendary status would be specific to how long you've been in game.  Also, if it was available through quests, then people would do easy quests over and over and over again just to powerlevel their heroism stat - and that's exactly the kind of thing we want to avoid and not reward.

In some cases, it won't make sense because the character hasn't done anything in the time it's existed, but that disadvantage pales in comparison to the positive difference the stat would make for the game.  Even then, if you haven't been in game for a year, it's assumed that your character was still alive, off doing something such as travelling or studying or wandering.

[Parallo]

What if your character is a farmer?

[zanzibar]

What if your character is a farmer?

I do think there's something mystical about old folkies.   Especially if they have "past lives"...

[Nurahk]

I don't know about weapons and such, but definetly some quests with great rewards.

[Quantus]

* Quantus applauds

Yes, I agree to something like that. We had allready discussed something like a "trustme vote" or judging system. The difficulty will be, that these skill should be well weightened to prevent people from bad voted cause they are representing bad gays (which is in fact well done and positive).

Maybe a skill like this could be placed under faction?

Some other factors, which could be interesting:
- Age
- Experience (Known Places / Solved Quests)
- Count of Kicks / Struck downs

I need to sleep some nights over this idea, but I like it very much.

[emeraldfool]

I don't understand the IC reason for this.

When people leave, they usually RP that they've moved off the first level, or have died, or simply don't RP it at all and fade out of existence. Why would lying in a grave gradually make you more of a hero...?

And even if it did, why would having a few legends floating around suddenly make you able to do certain things and carry around certain weapons other people can't?

I understand the sentiment, but It seems kinda OOC to me...

[zanzibar]

- Experience (Known Places / Solved Quests)

This would encourage powerlevelling of the stat.

- Count of Kicks / Struck downs

By this, I assume you mean that if you get in trouble with a GM, then your stats are affected.  I think this is both inappropriate and OOC.  A GM should only take away your items and stats if you cheated to aquire them.  Given that the GMs aren't perfect human beings who never make mistakes, I don't think that this should be a factor.

I need to sleep some nights over this idea, but I like it very much.

I'm glad.

I understand the sentiment, but It seems kinda OOC to me...

If you understand the sentiment, then you must understand the in character reasons for it.  It has to do with flavour, ingame history, the idea of lore, and it's a reflection of how long your character has been around and how much opportunity your character has had to make a difference.  These things are all IC.

[John80sk]

Uh, why?  Why would you possibly want a stat simply because you've had an account for x amount of time.  I mean, I've had a char since 2005, but I only really started playing in 2007.  So I should get 'hero' status because of that?  Mrmph... I've got another, similar idea which would have similar effects but I'll create another thread for it.

[zanzibar]

Uh, why?  Why would you possibly want a stat simply because you've had an account for x amount of time.

I'm pretty sure I answered that in the first post of the thread.  You can disagree with the reasons, but you can't deny that they exist.

I mean, I've had a char since 2005, but I only really started playing in 2007.  So I should get 'hero' status because of that?

Yes.  First off, you could pretend that your character has been doing something all that time; If not, you're free to delete the character and start a new one.  Secondly, even if your character doesn't deserve it, giving your character a bonus is worth it if it means giving 'more deserving' characters a bonus.

Mrmph... I've got another, similar idea which would have similar effects but I'll create another thread for it.

I look forward to reading it.

[emeraldfool]

If you understand the sentiment, then you must understand the in character reasons for it.  It has to do with flavour, ingame history, the idea of lore, and it's a reflection of how long your character has been around and how much opportunity your character has had to make a difference.  These things are all IC.

Not exactly. My great-grandma lived for 98 years, and in those 98 years she didn't gather even one hundredth of the fame Michael Jackson had by the time he was 12

It's not about how long has been around, and you can't just say that even though you nor your character has had absolutely no part in the community for the last 2 years, that somehow your character has done 100 remarkable things (that no one's heard of until you come back and tell them OOCly) and is thusly more important than the leader of a prominent guild that's only been around for 1 year...

There's three main flaws:

1. Like I said, it doesn't make logical sense that legendary heroes just pop up all of a sudden after 2 years of no activity, without warning or pretense.

2. Save a free beer at the tavern, or maybe a flock of gushing fans, there's no advantages legendary/famous people really have. There certainly wouldn't be famous-person-only equipment that nobody else can wear. Though I can see NPCs being more likely to trust an important task to someone of legendary status... Still, that's flawed in itself, because...

3. It would be totally OOC, and totally stupid to have a whole bunch of 'legendary heroes' all traipsing around Harnquist. Most people have multiple characters - in some case as many as 7 or 8 - if you multiply that by the amount of people who've been around a few years (even those that stop in every so often to check up) that means there'll be a lot of so-called heroes running around. Probably more heroes than normal people.

Legends are legends because they're rare and amazing. If every other farmer/miner walking around has a handful of glorious stories surrounding him, it just defeats the purpose.



That's just the main ones. There's also some smaller things like the fact that ideals change with the times, and one person's 'hero' is another's 'terrorist', and also the fact that you can't compare the deeds of a miner to the deeds of a demon-slayer, etc.

[Nikodemus]

...a "ring of the past" which raises all their character stats by 20.

Wow, i gues i won't be much wrong when i say the rings are becoming a legend, when you are saying that^^.

As about your idea, i don't like it at all. It strikes into realism too much.
Also, why the heck hero equipment is supposed to do something? Magical yes, but why the heck call it hero?
We had some heroes in our real history, leaders, generals - just 2 examples. What was so special about their armor? Besides it was crafted well and was giving them more charizma... i gues nothing more.
Some people liked to think of these armors/weapons as magicial and it's why i think you are assigning to hero title some magical properties... But where in real it was fairy tale, why should it be different in fantasy game? People are free to make such legends, but there is no reason for them to be true.
I just think that not only the title you are giving isn't best choice, but also what's behind it, strikes into consistency of the world too much. Why the heck if i want to give a "hero" weapon to some friend, he say he can't use it? Why not? Answer: because he did not play long enough. Very nice IC answer^^.

[emeraldfool]

Also, what Niko said. That was kinda the point I was making in Flaw 2...