Two skills: Jump Run (don't worry, it's not so rediculous)

[lurkmost]

There is a swimming skill, as well as a climbing skill.
I'd like to see jumping and running skills.
Jump would of cource allow you to jump higher, but I'm sure there would be some limit. The more usefull thing about jumping I think, is that it could also reflect your ability to fall. There are tricks when falling from different heights, such as rolling to reduce stress from your legs.
So jumping could reduce falling damage.
How about synergy with climbing? Your jump skill could reflect how far you can jump from the side of one ledge to another while climbing complicated crevices.

Running could reduce stamina as well as give a boost to running speed. This skill could also do subtle things if certain complicated ideas are but in place, such as trembling ground during spell effects or earthquakes that would normally slow or knock someone down (asuming the ideas of being knocked down or triped are put in place).

[Nikodemus]

I can't see a reason against why shoudln't it be determined by stats.

I'm also against skill for every new activity.
I believe we should have set of very basic skills, which would decide in different degree and quantity for this what we now call skills in PS.

[Zan]

I agree with Nikodemus.

The jump ability could be determined by a mix of strength and agility, while the running ability is a mix of agility and endurance.

[emeraldfool]

I agree with Nikodemus.

The jump ability could be determined by a mix of strength and agility, while the running ability is a mix of agility and endurance.

Why don't we determine your sword ability by strength and agility, and your light armour by will and endurance then?

The way you run and jump does effect how fast you run and how far you jump. Have you ever watched one of those olympic hurdle races? Everyone runs and jumps the exact same way, because that's considered the best, most efficient way, and they've been training in how to do it for years.

Yes, strength would effect it, in the same way strength effects your ability to chop through armour with a sword. There's still a technique involved.

[Idoru]

Why don't we determine your sword ability by strength and agility, and your light armour by will and endurance then?

I think they should have an impact but the sword thing is based on Skill, you could be very strong and agile but pathetically co-ordinated and get your ass kicked.

Not really sure about light armor, what does the level of skill actually reflect? your ability to fight in it un-encumbered? Your ability to ensure that a weapon strike hits in a more heavily armored spot? (why not just make it miss if you have such an ability?)

[Nikodemus]

The jump ability could be determined by a mix of strength and agility, while the running ability is a mix of agility and endurance.

Why don't we determine your sword ability by strength and agility, and your light armour by will and endurance then?

Because then we would also need such basic skills like accuracy, parrying, reflex and maybe something else if it matter enough.

EDIT
efool is right about sme skill in running or jumping though. But the conclussion is wrong. All skills should be based on basig stats/skills.
When you are training jumping you will also learn how to run better, but not as good as if you would focus on it, instead of jumping. The same is about all skills, inclusing these already in game.
Yes, their design isn't very good, because if add unique skill for every activity, we end with loads of skills, which should be connected, but aren't

[Zan]

Your damage is determined by agility and strenght .. and your dodge ratio is also determined by agility. Stats determine inherent character actions that can be trained through exercise, skills are things that can be studied. Jumping and running cannot be studied, the body can only be trained to become better at it. (body development is the only exception on this as far as I know. Personally I don't think it should be a skill )

*BA from the A-team voice* "Murdock, you fool!"

[Nikodemus]

Sure, stats do matter for different skills. This is good, but it is not enough. There could be more of them. It's exactly how system in computer game should look like, it is complex. Simplicity is for non-computer games. Since computer is capable of making all the complex calculations, player don't have to focus on looking at all the factors (skills/stats/whatever), but only playing his character, like you live your real life (without looking at some stats). So if there are a lot of them and player gets lost while looking at them and figuring out, exactly which is used for what, it is even better, because player shouldn't do it anyway, to be capable of acting better as the character. Player know his character from his actions, not some written down stats.

What about accuracy? Will you make use if it when you switch from sword to axe? There is not even such an ability.
And you can train everything. There are no exceptions. Stat or not, you need to practice to get better in it. (only for "stats" in PS has not valid developing system for now). In fact the difference beatween stats and skills slowly disappear if you think on what i write. But if there is need to divide the "abilities" into two groups, it would be these which are gained only by practice and these you need some teaching besides practice.

Funny, this topic made me put all the different puzless together into correct, not flawed system. (yeah, i did not just write it all there ;P. I'm not sure i want to start another discussion to hear the same questions and doubts, from similiar threads ;P. If i will be lucky, i will give it out in bits instead, i gues)

[emeraldfool]

Jumping and running cannot be studied, the body can only be trained to become better at it. (body development is the only exception on this as far as I know. Personally I don't think it should be a skill )

*BA from the A-team voice* "Murdock, you fool!"

http://www.thejump101.com/

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Running#Elements_of_good_running_technique

[Zan]

Fine, fine ... be difficult and nitpick at every single thing that is said.

I correct myself: "Jumping and running like it is used in Planeshift, in a functional, non-athletics-as-a-sport, way cannot be studied and is purely stat dependent."

[emeraldfool]

Fine, fine ... be difficult and nitpick at every single thing that is said.

I correct myself: "Jumping and running like it is used in Planeshift, in a functional, non-athletics-as-a-sport, way cannot be studied and is purely stat dependent."

My point is that there is a technique to running and jumping that can be studied, and improved.

[Eagel]

and what about if you're carrying 20 gold ores??
you shouldn't be able to run faster or jump higher

I think if we're mixing agility and strenght, also we have to mix weight.

[Nikodemus]

Of course Eagel. But we are talking there about abilities/stats/skills/whatever not physical state in which the character is. We are talking about things you can train or get tought too in some degree.
You do move slower if you carry a lot, but this is part of different formula. First the speed should be calculated in the abilities/stats/skills and then, once it is done, other modificators come into play.

[zanzibar]

My point is that there is a technique to running and jumping that can be studied, and improved.

This is true.

Do we want agility to be symbolic for knowledge of such techniques?  Or do we want agility to be symbolic only of physical condition?

[lurkmost]

There's an interesting thought, I hadn't considered the weight factor...
I'm thinking that a higher running skill would actually help keep endurance when you're loaded with ore.
Jumping could at the very least also add the distance of a "running jump", and combined with strength could indead help your height when burdened (within reason).

But the really interesting thing I think of when you mention weight, is how it will effect swimming.
This could be it's own topic. I would definately like to be able to use weight as "ballast", to swim/sink down faster, and drop it to rise suddenly.

Well, while I'm jumping through ideas, I wonder if we could ever see special combat manuvers that depend on certain skills (think backstab), like a charge for running, a jumping strike, and something else while swimming.