Author Topic: Facts and Laws of our understanding  (Read 5361 times)

zanzibar

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Re: Facts and Laws of our understanding
« Reply #15 on: March 17, 2007, 06:51:18 am »
Umm infinity is not a number in the ordinary sense. Infinity+1 is a meaningless concept. I'm not saying I agree with what is being put forward, just that the rebuttal is lame. Now if I can hear how to turn back time or to hit the cosmic "undo" I might give this some credence as far as I was able to put it into practice. I know a few dead people who didn't deserve what they got and who I would welcome back.


More or less.  "Infinity + 1" isn't meaningless, but it isn't a real number.  It's a process with no value except in a relativistic sense.

What rebuttal are you calling lame?
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LARAGORN

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Re: Facts and Laws of our understanding
« Reply #16 on: March 19, 2007, 01:43:47 am »
Yes, yes, Tori, Everything you are talking about are manifestations of an organized, connected, unified universe. I want to take the discussion to a deeper level. You and I might see these connections within the universe around us, and someone else might not see them. When you and I look around the universe and see connectedness, we start to experience that connectedness more and more. The universe brings us more experiences that validate what we "know" to be true about the universe, that all things are One. There are people that see the universe as a big random blob of chaos, and that's ok. When they look around, they see the byproducts of fundamental deterministic laws of the universe, that just happened to produce life as we know it. There have been cultures that see the universe as a creation of some magical being, that controls and manipulates all things, whom must be served or worshipped in some way. Ultimately, there is no better or worse way to look at things. We both see connectedness, but that doesn't mean we see things the best way. We simply see what we see, and then experience what we see. Those other view points experience what they see. We could all discuss forever what the universe Is, and we would find that we could never agree upon everything. We all tend to search for the objective reality that Is, and then want everyone to agree upon what that Is. The core of quantum mechanics is knowing that there may or may not be objective reality, and that we can only be know the universe subjectively. Let me give you a concrete example. I can choose to believe that my body is a collection of atoms, molecules, cells, organs, etc. Once I choose to believe that, that’s the assumption my reality will build itself upon. Or I can choose to believe that my body is a project of light emanating from my inner being. Once I choose to believe that, that’s the assumpion that my reality will build itself upon. Neither way is better or worse than the other. It’s all just a game. It just a matter of what serves me best. Now I don’t expect people to just throw out everything they believe about the universe. I merely want to express that it’s an option, and at core most of it is, just belief (assumptions). Andrew


Tori;
Oh my Andrew... Hmm-mm-mm...(rubbing my chin in contemplation)...SO...the deeper level is which, what, whom? For the "1" vibe to click, and for it to be effective...does it begin with the individual or group self? When you believe you are intelligent, you act intelligently. When you believe you are loving, you act lovingly and attract love. When you believe you are limitless, you act limitlessly and attract success. Why not accept the truth--that you were born to be happy, to succeed and to live life abundantly? By putting your attention on the most positive manifestation of your being, you create love, joy and peace in your life. It's your life---live it! Damn straight! Tori:)


:-) Tori, Hehe, It definitely begins and ends with the individual. That's exactly it. We should each live our lives, and let everyone else live theirs. We can each stand firm in the knowing that no matter how we "see" things, the universe will be that for us. We can also stand firm in knowing that no one has to agree with us. The equation "1?" states that the universe can be this, than, and the other, simultaneously, even if this, that, and the other are contradictory. One person's universal "laws" can be another person's universal "tendencies". Andrew


Andrew, Are you talking Multiple dimensions? And how do we help raise the world vibrations? Tori


I'm talking about the most fundamental principle in all the universe, beyond everything we think we know. The more we have this discussion the more I see that this is the mathematical equation for the Law of Attraction. You could consider the universe to have infinite dimensions. The only dimension that really matters to me though is the dimension that is me. The physical universe I live in, may or may not be the same physical universe you live in, even though ultimately we exist within the same universe. Although the word "we" becomes a little murky when you boil everything down to the One thing that is Source. In other words, I as an individual do not have to adopt the physical "laws" as defined by scientists as to how the universe works. Taking that even a step further, I can align with a physics that better suites my desired joy. The greatest thing about all of this is that no two people have to have the same physics. The universe is big enough, adaptable enough, and stretchable enough that it can deliver the individual physical results we desire. The point of this entire thread is to give each of us back the truly abundant freedom of creation that each and everyone of us Is. We are not limited in anyway by anything at anytime. There are no physical "laws", only perceived tendencies. Let me give you an example. When I lived in Arizona, I had a friend that was Navajo. I got to stay on the Navajo reservation with her parents several times. Her parents lived in a little one room building out in the middle of nowhere. The Navajo have many ceremonies for many things, and have a very different knowing about how the universe works than the average American. All I can really say is that on the Navajo reservation magic works. They have a cultural, historical belief system that creates this collective reality. Bring a scientist into this arena and they’ll see no magic, because magic cannot exist within the scientists mind. The Navajo and the scientists could argue forever on “How the Universe Works”, and never agree. They could each have deep personal experiences backing up their individual realities. My point is that both realities are simultaneously true at the same time. Magic exists and does not exist at the same time. Science exists and does not exist at the same time. The universe will operate in the model set down by the individual. The universe can even operate in different models at the same time that appear to conflict with each other. All That Is is as simple or complex as we choose to make it. See the individual power in that?  Andrew


I want to thank you as well for pushing the limits with me. I truly appreciate your perspective and support. It's tough for me to discuss any particular model of the universe, as I see all of them as true and valid.

What I want more than anything is for each of us to see that our unique perspective on things is as equally important to the universe as anyone elses perspective. For example, I Love science. I think sciece is a great way to look at things. Science has done wonders for the modern world. As a freedom seeking being though, I refuse to be limited by science, or any universal model for that matter.

1 - All things are one thing.
? - What we perceive that one thing to be, is how it is.

Andrew

All great truthes begin as blasphemies- SHAW
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zanzibar

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Re: Facts and Laws of our understanding
« Reply #17 on: March 19, 2007, 04:07:21 am »
The core of quantum mechanics is knowing that there may or may not be objective reality, and that we can only be know the universe subjectively.

False.  This is one of the many lies made by the movie "What the heck do we know?".

The core principle of quantum mechanics, if anything, is the uncertainty principle that says that particles have a duel nature as both particle and "probability wave".  This stuff about choosing your own reality based on what you decide to be real has nothing to do with quantum mechanics.

LARAGORN, you're still ignoring my explanation of how the foundation of his theory is bullcrap.  He's abusing bad math to prove something which simply isn't true.
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LARAGORN

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Re: Facts and Laws of our understanding
« Reply #18 on: March 19, 2007, 12:09:02 pm »
My friend Zanzi, I didnt avoid anything
I do believe you are missing the point, the math isnt the important thing here. I think the method is more important than the content, it is the proccess of analisys. To break away from conventional thinking and allow new non black and white, fact = fact mentality, discovering new possibilities.

If you dont get it, well, I'm sory. How is he using bad math? Simply because you dont agree with his theory, dose not make it wrong. I cant make it any clearer then Andrew has, and some people will never get it, and thats ok.

Quote
The point of this entire thread is to give each of us back the truly abundant freedom of creation that each and everyone of us Is. We are not limited in anyway by anything at anytime. There are no physical "laws", only perceived tendencies. ...

...The greatest thing about all of this is that no two people have to have the same physics. The universe is big enough, adaptable enough, and stretchable enough that it can deliver the individual physical results we desire. ...

...My point is that both realities are simultaneously true at the same time.

 Andrew


All great truthes begin as blasphemies- SHAW
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zanzibar

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Re: Facts and Laws of our understanding
« Reply #19 on: March 19, 2007, 02:43:19 pm »
If you dont get it, well, I'm sory. How is he using bad math? Simply because you dont agree with his theory, dose not make it wrong. I cant make it any clearer then Andrew has, and some people will never get it, and thats ok.

His entire theory is based on a mathematically proof showing that 1=0.  However his math is just plain wrong.  It's bad math.  I explained how it was bad math in my original post - I guess you didn't take the time to read that post before dismissing it.

There are different rates and sizes of infinity.  Infinity is one less than infinity plus one.  Infinity is half the size of infinity times two.  This is because infinity is a process, not a value.  He simply doesn't understand math as well as he thinks he does and he's exploiting the ignorance of his audience.  His proof is bunk.

This means that his "theory" is nothing but quasi-religious metaphysical assumptions lacking proof.  Now, quasi-religious metaphysical assumptions lacking proof can be interesting and pleasant, but that doesn't mean we should believe them.
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LARAGORN

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Re: Facts and Laws of our understanding
« Reply #20 on: March 19, 2007, 04:17:38 pm »
With all due respect Zanzi, you are posting insanly, Einstein said that the definition of insanity is doing the same thing over and over again and expecting different results. (this definition has been atributed to many others aswell).

I get your point, I understand your logic, I dont agree with you. Very simple.

This thread is not for you Zanzi, you have everything figured out and you are happy that way. Not everyone else thinks that way, (thankfully) some people like to exersise their brain by trying to imagine new possibilities. You are not one of these people, so stop wasting your time here, there are many other threads that are just waiting for an argument, this one is not. ;)

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zanzibar

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Re: Facts and Laws of our understanding
« Reply #21 on: March 19, 2007, 04:24:00 pm »
With all due respect Zanzi, you are posting insanly, Einstein said that the definition of insanity is doing the same thing over and over again and expecting different results. (this definition has been atributed to many others aswell).

I get your point, I understand your logic, I dont agree with you. Very simple.

This thread is not for you Zanzi, you have everything figured out and you are happy that way. Not everyone else thinks that way, (thankfully) some people like to exersise their brain by trying to imagine new possibilities. You are not one of these people, so stop wasting your time here, there are many other threads that are just waiting for an argument, this one is not. ;)

Do you realize how much of a fool you look like right now?
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LARAGORN

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Re: Facts and Laws of our understanding
« Reply #22 on: March 19, 2007, 04:28:22 pm »
Concidering you think 98% of the people on this forum are fools, I am in good company

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zanzibar

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Re: Facts and Laws of our understanding
« Reply #23 on: March 19, 2007, 04:32:18 pm »
Concidering you think 98% of the people on this forum are fools, I am in good company.

Your behaviour is so irrational that I'm finding it hard to figure out what an appropriate response would be.  You're saying that you want to ignore me because I disagree with you, and you're saying that you're willing to believe something that has no evidence in support of it.  And you don't see a problem with any of this.  Do you really think it's a good idea to believe any idea you think is interesting or that sounds nice, even if it's unfounded or based on bad evidence?  That's how you get a country stuck in Iraq.

And despite all this, you dare to accuse me of insanity? ::)
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Idoru

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Re: Facts and Laws of our understanding
« Reply #24 on: March 19, 2007, 04:48:57 pm »
Im beginning to understand why you stayed out of the Psionics thread Zanzibar :P

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Do you really think it's a good idea to believe any idea you think is interesting or that sounds nice, even if it's unfounded or based on bad evidence?


Unfortunatly an awful lot of people do seem to think like this.

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bilbous

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Re: Facts and Laws of our understanding
« Reply #25 on: March 19, 2007, 04:53:31 pm »
Isn't that the basis for religion?

LARAGORN

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Re: Facts and Laws of our understanding
« Reply #26 on: March 19, 2007, 04:53:55 pm »
Just to refresh the thinking peoples minds..

I do believe you are missing the point, the math isnt the important thing here. I think the method is more important than the content, it is the proccess of analisys. To break away from conventional thinking and allow new non black and white, fact = fact mentality, discovering new possibilities.

Nowhere in this thread am I asking people to believe anything, I am asking people to THINK outside the box (I hate using old sayings :D )
Nothing more, nothing less, just possibilities.

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Idoru

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Re: Facts and Laws of our understanding
« Reply #27 on: March 19, 2007, 04:59:30 pm »
Isn't that the basis for religion?

I believe it is, yes.

Nowhere in this thread am I asking people to believe anything, I am asking people to THINK outside the box (I hate using old sayings :D )
Nothing more, nothing less, just possibilities.

You are asking people to disregard what they actually do believe, to think in the way you want them to?  You will never get the replies your looking for because we are our thoughts and beliefs and you are not likely to change what we are with a thread on these forums.
« Last Edit: March 19, 2007, 06:27:56 pm by Karyuu »

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Re: Facts and Laws of our understanding
« Reply #28 on: March 19, 2007, 05:43:23 pm »
Wow, guys, stop killing the thread.

Laragorn is just posting an interesting discussion from another forums, nothing wrong with that.  Disagree if you want, Zanzi, I'm with you there.  But, just leave the thread alone for now, maybe Andrew will clear up his mistakes later.

zanzibar

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Re: Facts and Laws of our understanding
« Reply #29 on: March 19, 2007, 05:51:07 pm »
Wow, guys, stop killing the thread.

Laragorn is just posting an interesting discussion from another forums, nothing wrong with that.  Disagree if you want, Zanzi, I'm with you there.  But, just leave the thread alone for now, maybe Andrew will clear up his mistakes later.


Given Laragorn's response on this forum, I don't think Andrew will ever find out about his "mistakes".
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