Author Topic: RP fighting  (Read 4582 times)

Rayken

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Re: RP fighting
« Reply #15 on: March 19, 2007, 08:12:12 pm »
Zan has it right.  RP duels are good for allowing things that the engine simply doesn't support yet, such as non-lethal combat.  Honestly, my ideal dueling system for PS would be a sort of hybred between the current system and an RP duel, a text version of the D&D system with attempts at attacks, attempts at dodges or blocks, and success rolls to see if the hit lands.  It would be completely turn based.

Xillix, for most of the RP duels i've witnessed or taken part in, the duelers have followed your instructions.  The typical RP dueler (though by no means all of them) is very aware of the IC consequences of their actions, and such a duel, as one IRL, is not likely to happen in a public place.

I certainly don't mean to condemn the dueling system entirely.  If it's fun for you, use it.  And it is important to have features continuously getting tested, so i admit that engine-duelers are doing more as testers then are RP-duelers.  However at present time, RP-dueling simply allows more possibilities, and is more fun, for me anyway.

EDIT: I forgot to mention, only RP-duel with someone you trust.  We use the honor system to determine hits.  The attacker tries to hit and the victim gets to decide whether or not they get hit.  A good RP'er will allow themselves to get hit fairly often.  It's no fun when every time someone says "I easily dodge the attack."  Role-playing isn't about winning, so a good RP'er shouldn't care if their character wins or loses the duel.  Not wanting to lose your character is understandable,  but we don't kill without permission in RP duels (and rarely at that.)  But yeah, don't RP-duel people who you don't know and trust to understand this and you'll be fine.
« Last Edit: March 19, 2007, 08:24:57 pm by Rayken »
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zanzibar

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Re: RP fighting
« Reply #16 on: March 19, 2007, 09:12:12 pm »
Personally, I think it's OOC to ignore the mechanics of the game unless you have a good reason to.  Saying that normal duels are inherently OOC is bogus.
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Heyok

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Re: RP fighting
« Reply #17 on: March 20, 2007, 12:12:38 am »
Duels Are inherently OOC they depend mainly on a players grasp of the controls, which isn't supposed to be existent. Also, an RP fight has no limits except for your imagination, which is how these RPGs got started (major tabletop DND player here) the freedom to do what you want in a combat scenario allows more challenge, more options, and ultimatley, more fun.

Volund

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Re: RP fighting
« Reply #18 on: March 20, 2007, 01:34:32 am »
Roleplay dueling, is in fact more complicated. He has plate armor, will my longsword stab through? Leather armor wont withstand one arrow will it? In fact any player can decline the attack. It has to be worked out. Currently Using BOTH Roleplay and Player versus player action is exhilarating. Only my problem with the challenge sequence is that how am I supposed to assasinate people? Impossible. They can hold the challenge and run around with /target next player and find me. Equip their armor and swords and then it wont be much of a hunt will it? No. It has to do with the players reasoning, if he has the common sense to agree or disagree to make the roleplay better.


]If you want to player own PvP duels, heres a tip: Get a whip fast PC, Max levels. BING. Have fun. Unfortunately many people do not have both of these.]
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zanzibar

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Re: RP fighting
« Reply #19 on: March 20, 2007, 03:37:38 am »
Duels Are inherently OOC they depend mainly on a players grasp of the controls, which isn't supposed to be existent. Also, an RP fight has no limits except for your imagination, which is how these RPGs got started (major tabletop DND player here) the freedom to do what you want in a combat scenario allows more challenge, more options, and ultimatley, more fun.

True.  However, you can agree before the duel starts to just stand in one place.

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drah

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Re: RP fighting
« Reply #20 on: March 20, 2007, 08:32:49 am »
Duels Are inherently OOC they depend mainly on a players grasp of the controls, which isn't supposed to be existent. Also, an RP fight has no limits except for your imagination, which is how these RPGs got started (major tabletop DND player here) the freedom to do what you want in a combat scenario allows more challenge, more options, and ultimatley, more fun.

And RP duels to an extent rely on player acting-abilities/imagination/communication-through-narration/etc rather than be solely determined by the character in-game.  Practically everything in-game is influenced by the OOC capabilities of the player to do something. -- If it wasn't the game wouldn't have controls beyond initial character creation (for example.. even with the best roleplayers.. a character's misinterpretation is almost always down to the player's misinterpretation.).

Jumping across rooftops, ascending ladders, fighting an ulbernaut, jumping across gaps of any kind...  all depend on a players grasp of the controls and in many cases their reactions too... this doesn't mean they're all "inherently OOC".  The way people act (or don't even RP anything prior to challenging) leading up to a PVP confrontation is, IMO... what can make the duel OOC.

As for agreeing to stand-still, if I was weak dermorian fighting a burly kran, I think I'd be more 'spritely', even trying to use cover of scenery, buildings, etc. to lose the Kran and then sneak up on the Kran from behind.

I agree that the whole running-backwards-and-forwards thing in PVP can be OOC (which I'm sure is what you're referring to Zanzibar?) and seems more like jousting... but in some cases moving around isn't OOC either, I could especially understand a weaker but more nimble character trying to out-maneuver a stronger opponent... rather than just stand there and accept their fate!

Of course, two mighty warriors, both weighed down with heavy armor... I could imagine just standing there slogging it out.


As for RP fights... they're okay when it's one-on-one, or something involving just a few people... but there are times when it's not as feasible as PVP and dependent on who is involved, it can be as futile and irritating as I know PVP is to others.

If there's a load of people involved... it can end up devolving into a rapidly scrolling chat window with people missing each others actions.

Also, if two people are too stubborn to concede to anything, you can end up with them performing stunning defensive maneuvers over and over again in a long drawn-out, and eventually tiresome RP fight... simply because they each consider their own character to be legendary. - Fortunately I don't think this is too common because the RP fights I've seen have generally been pre-determined to some degree... but you occasionally get someone who RPs themself as near-invincible for whatever reason, totally out-numbered and out-'gunned'... they act like a nuclear bomb would merely tickle them.

Of course, you could always use /roll to determine whether each action is successful or not when this happens... but that doesn't take account of your character's strength and training... unless you exchange info about your chars stats, armor, etc.

Then, like with pvp... you get irritating noobs.. who end up godmodding. --- So, as with pvp, it's worth only engaging with people that you know are going to be somewhat realistic and fair about things!!!

If it's done that way and with not too many people.. then I agree it is fun for some people... but it suffers the same potential problems that spoil pvp... in that idiocy and noobishness can spoil it too.



Really, there's a PVP system there that handles all the stats, etc. for me and is the framework in-game that represents combat... it's quick and easy to use and depends on the character-skills, training, weapons and armor. - it's also just been balanced out considerably giving everyone a better chance to win. - I'm happy to agree rules of engagement and let the system decide the rest.

To me, something that depends on your armor, weapons, skills & training, etc. is more IC than something relying on your ability to narrate your actions... it's just not performed as verbosely.  But when I say it's more IC... I obviously don't mean it's as "role-playish", It just has more dependencies on the character in-game if you were to remove OOC influence.
« Last Edit: March 20, 2007, 08:57:18 am by drah »

Garon

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Re: RP fighting
« Reply #21 on: March 23, 2007, 12:51:14 am »
Duels Are inherently OOC they depend mainly on a players grasp of the controls, which isn't supposed to be existent. Also, an RP fight has no limits except for your imagination, which is how these RPGs got started (major tabletop DND player here) the freedom to do what you want in a combat scenario allows more challenge, more options, and ultimatley, more fun.

True.  However, you can agree before the duel starts to just stand in one place.


Which gets back to the problem of how many players, if holding a private conversation, would rather whisper in group, but refuse to invite someone who is listening in into their group, instead claiming that they spotted them.  I'm a fan of lowering your voice, but not a fan of "I see you through this wall/closed door/pillar" types.  (Roughly translated:  Gets back to the issue that many players would rather act OOCly or do the impossible/nearly impossible and then have an excuse for it, such as faster reflexes from training or the like, then die or be inconvenienced)

zanzibar

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Re: RP fighting
« Reply #22 on: March 23, 2007, 01:50:15 am »
@drah: moving during a duel = bypassing game mechanics = exploit
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drah

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Re: RP fighting
« Reply #23 on: March 23, 2007, 02:04:19 am »
If both sides are happy with moving while fighting... nothing is getting exploited.

If the game mechanics intended strictly for us to stay in one spot... you'd think we'd be kinda locked in place or something...

If the game is intended to be like that... they could make it so you can only challenge when standing right next to someone, then make it so they can't move until they accept or refuse.  If they accept, you both automatically face each other, start fighting and can't move until you yield or the other person yields/dies... but I'm sure that'd lead to more complaints than anything else.


There's a whole bunch of reasons why people wouldn't just stand there... and it's got nothing to do with exploiting game-mechanics. (Running off to seek a vantage point so you can lead your enemy into a trap, fleeing to cover in the hope you can sneak up on your enemy, making distance so you can used a ranged attack instead, etc.)
« Last Edit: March 23, 2007, 02:18:48 am by drah »

zanzibar

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Re: RP fighting
« Reply #24 on: March 23, 2007, 02:31:16 am »
I don\'t see any problem with that atm as everyone can do it. In the future you won\'t be able to do this most likely.
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drah

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Re: RP fighting
« Reply #25 on: March 23, 2007, 08:51:28 am »
I think that was a response to hit-and-run style fighting and not necessarily a blanket statement about moving while dueling. 

Still, how's this...

1. You must stand right next to the person you want to challenge before you can challenge.
2. When they are challenged, they are locked in position until they accept or refuse.
3. If they accept, you both automatically face each other, cannot move at all, and start to fight.
4. You can only move again when one side has died or yielded.

Is that the sort of thing you'd want?

zanzibar

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Re: RP fighting
« Reply #26 on: March 23, 2007, 08:57:41 am »
Quote from: Raa
Immaturity is FTW.

Unnamed_Source

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Re: RP fighting
« Reply #27 on: March 23, 2007, 08:59:20 am »
Zan has it right.  RP duels are good for allowing things that the engine simply doesn't support yet, such as non-lethal combat.  Honestly, my ideal dueling system for PS would be a sort of hybred between the current system and an RP duel, a text version of the D&D system with attempts at attacks, attempts at dodges or blocks, and success rolls to see if the hit lands.  It would be completely turn based.
I hate to toot my own horn ... http://hydlaa.com/smf/index.php?topic=27911.0 That idea had not yet been finished, all but started, yet it was easily ignored. I had hoped that more contributions would have been made. But apparently people don't care enough past the bitching point. Even if you don't agree with it at all, atleast make a suggestion and your point of view will contribute towards the effort. Arguing the same arguemnt new post every new post. the same argument, the same words, is not going to get us any closer to a good alternative solution. I have given my thought on the subject, now its your turn to add yours. http://hydlaa.com/smf/index.php?topic=27911.0

drah

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Re: RP fighting
« Reply #28 on: March 23, 2007, 09:00:59 am »
^^ Actually, that's not a bad idea... I'd agree with you on full defensive when moving... except, that if you are charging an opponent... it would effectively be the opposite of full defensive... Anyway, we're heading in the direction of discussing PVPs pitfalls and/or merits, which is heading off-topic... so I'm gonna quit cackling on about it here and save it for the next PVP thread.

;)
« Last Edit: March 23, 2007, 09:04:29 am by drah »

neko kyouran

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Re: RP fighting
« Reply #29 on: March 23, 2007, 10:57:11 am »
Get back to RP fighting, not moving while dueling, please.