Author Topic: Animal extinction  (Read 5480 times)

Idoru

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Re: Animal extinction
« Reply #15 on: March 21, 2007, 03:59:31 pm »
Well, they do have a 'kind' of life, well, bacteria do. Viruses are questionable.

I think that they are not particularly important in the eco-system, yes they thin out the population, remove those with weak immune systems and such. But here we are straying into dangerous territory, would you advocate euthanising people with disabilities? I would think these two are comparable.

As for my opinion, we shouldnt worry about extinction of dangerous pathogens because they dont contribute anything 'positive' to the world.

"May there only be peaceful and cheerful Earth Days to come for our beautiful Spaceship Earth as it continues to spin and circle in frigid space with its warm and fragile cargo of animate life."

zanzibar

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Re: Animal extinction
« Reply #16 on: March 21, 2007, 04:58:35 pm »
bacteria are important

study biology
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Idoru

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Re: Animal extinction
« Reply #17 on: March 21, 2007, 06:13:50 pm »
Why the hostile 'tone' Zanzibar?

And maybe re-read my post.

"May there only be peaceful and cheerful Earth Days to come for our beautiful Spaceship Earth as it continues to spin and circle in frigid space with its warm and fragile cargo of animate life."

Narure

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Re: Animal extinction
« Reply #18 on: March 21, 2007, 06:18:03 pm »
As for my opinion, we shouldnt worry about extinction of dangerous pathogens because they dont contribute anything 'positive' to the world.

And what do we contribute to the world?

Idoru

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Re: Animal extinction
« Reply #19 on: March 21, 2007, 06:24:36 pm »
And what do we contribute to the world?

this is heading quickly towards a philosophical arguement which wasnt really my hope for the thread.

Lets just say that people are all here to entertain me, thats a good enough reason as far as im concerned. :P

Really though, I dont personally think that we do anything that contributes to the world, but lets not all decide to do the next mass suicide, it may not be the best image for all of PS's 'beta testers' to kill themselves. Dont think it would be good for the reputation of the project.

"May there only be peaceful and cheerful Earth Days to come for our beautiful Spaceship Earth as it continues to spin and circle in frigid space with its warm and fragile cargo of animate life."

Induane

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Re: Animal extinction
« Reply #20 on: March 21, 2007, 06:26:09 pm »
Zanzibar is right about the bacteria.  Saying that they are not an important part of the ecosystem is highly short-sighted.  In fact I'd have to say they are possibly the single most important living part of the ecosystem.  Without bacteria, life couldn't exist.  Humans even rely on symbiotic relationships with several types of bacteria, and if they suddenly died in us, we couldn't live without them.  They break down decaying matter back into soil and so many other things we couldn't even imagine.  If they were gone life would probably cease to exist, at least as we know it. 
Also, the euthanasia of people and bacteria naturally picking off the week are NOT good comparisons.     Perhaps I misread what you wrote, but there are not many similarities between natural selection by natural bacteria, and choosing to die to avoid suffering.  The key is choice.

As for extinction,  I think there are tons of sides to this, like a complex dodecahedron with each side in various shades of gray.  The only way we could totally take away our impact on the environment would be to all go live in the wilderness again and abandon all technology.  No more farming, no more anything except our ancient hunter/gatherer ways.  Even then our large population would have a large impact, though all told, we need agriculture and other technology just to support such a huge population on Earth. On the other hand, continual habitat destruction will have consequences that we probably know little of.  What happens when many critical portions of the natural food chains go extinct?  Will other organisms fill in the blanks or will the food chain collapse?   What is known is that we cannot keep exploding the population of the planet without dire consequences in the future.  While when it will reach a critical level is unknown, I don't think that anyone can deny it will without a significant change in the way we consume resources.  The larger our population we will invariable be forcing out many many species, many of which will go extinct. 

We end up caught in a catch 22, with both ends of the spectrum looking grim.  We need to find a balance, try to reduce the footprint of our consumption, waste less, and work to protect what we have left.  We can't completely stop our influence on the environment (which we ARE a part of don't forget), but we can lessen our impact.  In the end if we want our growth to continue, I'm hoping we can colonize other planets and moons.  Perhaps some day in the future Earth could be allowed to fall back to a more natural state as we spread out.  I'm not holding my breath, but its the only hope I see.

Idoru

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Re: Animal extinction
« Reply #21 on: March 21, 2007, 06:33:21 pm »
* Idoru bangs his head very hard against the nearest wall.

I was trying to avoid quoting myself, but here goes:

As for my opinion, we shouldnt worry about extinction of dangerous pathogens because they dont contribute anything 'positive' to the world.

Maybe I should have used that line 1st. I'm not suggesting we work towards mass extinction of all those bacteria that we certainly would not be alive without, that would be just stupidity, which is frankly why I found Zanzibar's post remarkably offensive.

[EDIT]

When I mentioned euthenasia I wasnt talking about voluntary euthenasia, I was refering to the mandatory form. Eugenics.
« Last Edit: March 21, 2007, 06:36:09 pm by Idoru »

"May there only be peaceful and cheerful Earth Days to come for our beautiful Spaceship Earth as it continues to spin and circle in frigid space with its warm and fragile cargo of animate life."

lordraleigh

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Re: Animal extinction
« Reply #22 on: March 21, 2007, 06:40:49 pm »
When I mentioned euthenasia I wasnt talking about voluntary euthenasia, I was refering to the mandatory form. Eugenics.

Also Known as: Genocide.

Or: "Cleansing"

Now how could we remove dangerous bacteria if there are even man-made viruses being done in secret laboratories?

Narure

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Re: Animal extinction
« Reply #23 on: March 21, 2007, 06:45:29 pm »
I should say that humans add a philosophical and an emotional part to the world being the creatures with the most developed brains... wouldn’t want some nutter getting the idea of killing everyone in the world to save it.

Idoru

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Re: Animal extinction
« Reply #24 on: March 21, 2007, 06:59:09 pm »
@lordraleigh, tenuously on topic, The two are not mutually exclusive.

@Narure, Yes, we do add that, but without it the world would tick along perfectly fine.


I would like to clarify that I am not suggesting that we cleanse the planet of people.

OH, and on the point raised about growth of the population. It would only work for so long, even if we do managed to escape this rock and populate the solar system and later the galaxy, we will eventually reach the point where we cant expand fast enough to escape ourselves. Great theory in a book I read about humans managing this and after several thousand years the population was expanding so fast that we would need to exceed the speed of light to spread out at a sustainable rate. (and IMO I do not believe that faster than light travel is possible)

"May there only be peaceful and cheerful Earth Days to come for our beautiful Spaceship Earth as it continues to spin and circle in frigid space with its warm and fragile cargo of animate life."

zanzibar

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Re: Animal extinction
« Reply #25 on: March 21, 2007, 07:11:29 pm »
Why the hostile 'tone' Zanzibar?

And maybe re-read my post.

It was a reply to Bilbous.  I don't have the patience to explain highschool biology to him.
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Idoru

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Re: Animal extinction
« Reply #26 on: March 21, 2007, 07:15:07 pm »
Then please accept my sincere appologies Zanzibar.  :flowers:

"May there only be peaceful and cheerful Earth Days to come for our beautiful Spaceship Earth as it continues to spin and circle in frigid space with its warm and fragile cargo of animate life."

bilbous

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Re: Animal extinction
« Reply #27 on: March 22, 2007, 06:14:26 am »
Hmm well bubonic plague is bacterial, smallpox and measles are viral. I do think we would need to sterilize the earth to get rid of all sources of any of these. Your reply was kind of a non sequitur as my question was rhetorical, I certainly was not asking for a biology lesson. Hey lets see what Wikipedia has to say about bacteria

Quote
Bacteria are ubiquitous in every habitat on Earth, growing in soil, acidic hot springs, radioactive waste,[1] seawater, and deep in the earth's crust. Some bacteria can even survive in the extreme cold and vacuum of outer space. There are typically 40 million bacterial cells in a gram of soil and a million bacterial cells in a millilitre of fresh water; in all, there are approximately five nonillion (5×1030) bacteria in the world.

Well might be a bit of a chore getting rid of even one kind.

Quote
Although the vast majority of these bacteria are rendered harmless or beneficial by the protective effects of the immune system, a few pathogenic bacteria cause infectious diseases, including cholera, syphilis, anthrax, leprosy and bubonic plague. The most common fatal bacterial diseases are respiratory infections, with tuberculosis alone killing about 2 million people a year, mostly in sub-Saharan Africa.[5]

Some of these might be worth the effort, but like I said -- sterilize the earth.

EDIT: Fixed superscript in wiki quote.
« Last Edit: March 23, 2007, 04:49:04 pm by bilbous »

Araye

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Re: Animal extinction
« Reply #28 on: March 23, 2007, 04:15:32 pm »
I'm sure a good sized meteor strike causes more extinction than mankind.    :innocent:

Idoru

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Re: Animal extinction
« Reply #29 on: March 23, 2007, 04:22:08 pm »
True, as would many other things out of our control. It doesnt mean that its an excuse to do nothing about the current situation.

"May there only be peaceful and cheerful Earth Days to come for our beautiful Spaceship Earth as it continues to spin and circle in frigid space with its warm and fragile cargo of animate life."