FIghting system

[Narure]

Just a few things i think would inprove the fighting system:

• Loss of accuracy when running, this would make PvP duals more complex and open up more tactical play, also the stance would automaticaly be changed to agressive (you tend not to run at your opponent defensivly)
• having to slow down gradualy, a sudden stop would result in a complete loss of accuracy. This would stop people running at their opponent then stoping just to be accurate.
• more exaggerated differences between weapons, e.g. daggers much faster, swords much better defense value, axes much more powerful, at the moment swords tend to win every dual
• A dissarm possiblity, this would make your oppents weapon drop to the ground leaving them more vunrable, swords would be the most likly to be dissarmed and daggers the least, with poelarms and axes inbetween. An idea that fits in with this is that items can only be picked up if at least one hand is free, two if the item is heavier.

[Symasta]

I think those ideas would help it
to the second point: if people would stop running to the opponent and standing there just looking who hits first duels would be more fun!

to the third point: Just take care, if daggers are too fast it can be unfair, and swords shouldn't be supposed to be that much slowlier (as long we talk about short swords). And for people it sucks if other can make one-hit-kills and yourself not, what might happen if swords are more defensive but you stil hit that hard.

Some additions I have:

• the possibility to make duels where you don't go that far and kill someone, so that the other dies, just till maybe 1%, then you win. That would give a better chance to role play and fight training would not have to be in DR. Till now you have no real chance for a friendly fight...
• second point maybe to make it more real with duels that you can set money or stuff at the beginning of the duel (just like at the trade system that you can put in things) and then the winner of the duel can loot these things -> more real orbberies possible

Greetings, Symasta

[Earl_Listbard]

more exaggerated differences between weapons, e.g. daggers much faster, swords much better defense value, axes much more powerful, at the moment swords tend to win every dual

I bet to disagree to me it seems to dagger wielders win the most duels, but thats another story.

A dissarm possiblity, this would make your oppents weapon drop to the ground leaving them more vunrable, swords would be the most likly to be dissarmed and daggers the least, with poelarms and axes inbetween. An idea that fits in with this is that items can only be picked up if at least one hand is free, two if the item is heavier.

Again this would make daggers stronger then they already are, my main pet peave is that daggers seem to be the ulbtimant weapons in planeshift, yet if they are truely almighty why didn't knights carry daggers into battle during the crusades? or other invasions...

I agree daggers should be fast and hard to disarm, but they need to seriously and I mean seriously be weak against most any kind of armor.

having to slow down gradualy, a sudden stop would result in a complete loss of accuracy. This would stop people running at their opponent then stoping just to be accurate.

I don't see why someone can't charge an opponet and stop at them, its a collision attack.

Loss of accuracy when running, this would make PvP duals more complex and open up more tactical play, also the stance would automaticaly be changed to agressive (you tend not to run at your opponent defensivly)

I agree

the possibility to make duels where you don't go that far and kill someone, so that the other dies, just till maybe 1%, then you win. That would give a better chance to role play and fight training would not have to be in DR. Till now you have no real chance for a friendly fight...

I always liked the idea of having a /battletrain or something like that, as a command, where you can't kill you're opponet.

second point maybe to make it more real with duels that you can set money or stuff at the beginning of the duel (just like at the trade system that you can put in things) and then the winner of the duel can loot these things -> more real orbberies possible

good idea in my book.

[Zan]

I still stick to my opinion .. relative strengths and weaknesses are the key. Don't just look at what you're wielding when you determine damage done but also look at what your opponent is wielding, both offensively and defensively.

[Narure]

Well since the detuning of silverweaves and irons dagger users are left pretty much screwed.

[Socius Rockus]

Oke so the weapons need some fine tunning, But also note that What are you going to do with a puny dagger against some dude with a massive longsword?, also, I don't think dagger can really go through heavy armor you need some massive swing for that.

About the running and fighting part... Well, this is just me thinking, I'm just so totally not good in games where your really need RL skills, like FPS (I like them, but I'm not good at them ) Now for an RPG it's important you "Role Play" your character... I hope everyone agrees so far 
I find it very irritating (although I'm getting the hang of it now) That I can attack and run away from a lets say Tefusang, in such a way the Tefusang doesn't hit me but I hit it.
When I don't do this I die, the same goes for the people who don't have the "quick response run away skill" And this is totally a RL skill.
--I mean, what if I wanted Socius to be a feared Duelist? okey I train like there is no tomorrow, but then what? I got a totally maxed out char and I duel someone, oh crap he's running away and attacking me, darn I can't keep up I don't have über-micro! Socius dies 
So it would be nice if the fighting doesn't really depend on how quick you can hit buttons else someone who isn't that fast never RP a decent duelist or fighter even if he trains day and night

So hopefully in the end the plans about the fighting itself proposed shouldn't be needed, I know it's going to be dificult doing this, it may even result in a feared in a Turn base system (which can be iritating if the oppent doesn't responde ect. ect.).

And Symy That friendly fighting thing is really nice, although I doubt I would ever fight anyone for fun till I'm nearly death (1%)

[Raleigh]

Here's my 2 cents:

• Attacks of Opportunity: So now if you insist with "hit and run", your opponent will get one extra attack against you each time you run away from combat
• Terrain bonuses: I know it isn't a RTS, but I think that, for the sake of realism and for making combats more interesting, being in a elevated terrain, rainfall and other conditions of the environment should give your character a defensive bonus(or penalty), and in the case of ranged weapons, an attack bonus as well, but as it's not quite easy to program, it's something for the future
• Damage resistances: Krans are supposed to be resistent against slashing and piercing weapons and vulnerable to bludgeoning for example, the same could be applied to armors. I suppose leather armors would be good against light blunt weapons, but not a great protection against anything larger than a dagger, plate mails against arrows(except for crossbows) and also very effective against the daggers too. Chain mail would be effective mostly against slashing too. And then just move forward with more features on items. And perhaps it could include damage resistance to magical attacks as well in the far future
• Parry bonus: Some weapons are better for parrying than others. If larger swords gave your character some parry defensive bonus(Increasing your chances of blocking blows), while daggers gave none or very little(they are too small for being used effectively to parry blows), it also would help balancing things
• Armor Penetration: Some weapons would have advantages against tougher armors while others would have clear penalties on their chances of piercing through the protection of them. In my opinion some types of weapons should be almost harmless against a full plate mail(Except if you make a strike on the head), and thus wouldn't be appropriate for intensive combat in real warfare
• Boost functional combat spells damage significantly: They are quite underpowered right now, and perhaps making a increase on its variables to make magic at least as powerful as combat, so people trained on level 20 of a combat skill and 20 of a way will be able to face each other in combat. But I think magic should be more powerful, as it's harder to develop as a skill than the available combat ones. If it's a good idea, I don't think increasing some variables on the base damage of spells to balance them with combat skills would be a great deal of work, but I'm not a coder so it's just a guess.
• Make somewhere level 10-20 as the "Good warrior" standard, or make choices easier for people to make characters that are already good enough with fighting. I suspect, that on the duelling and combat scene, thanks to powerlevelling. If you wish to have a chance in combat with other players, you must be a powerleveller too. There must be a way to reconcile fighting skills with roleplaying, it just wasn't found yet. To make such standard instead of the usual "max skills or die", perhaps the way levelling works would need some significant changes to reduce the need of grinding, and by adding some "training area" where you could pay to learn fighting, go in training courses with combat dummies and using non-lethal weaponry against other players, until reaching a certain level that would be the "enough"(Something that shouldn't take much time).

[Narure]

Oke so the weapons need some fine tunning, But also note that What are you going to do with a puny dagger against some dude with a massive longsword?, also, I don't think dagger can really go through heavy armor you need some massive swing for that.

About the running and fighting part... Well, this is just me thinking, I'm just so totally not good in games where your really need RL skills, like FPS (I like them, but I'm not good at them ) Now for an RPG it's important you "Role Play" your character... I hope everyone agrees so far 
I find it very irritating (although I'm getting the hang of it now) That I can attack and run away from a lets say Tefusang, in such a way the Tefusang doesn't hit me but I hit it.
When I don't do this I die, the same goes for the people who don't have the "quick response run away skill" And this is totally a RL skill.
--I mean, what if I wanted Socius to be a feared Duelist? okey I train like there is no tomorrow, but then what? I got a totally maxed out char and I duel someone, oh crap he's running away and attacking me, darn I can't keep up I don't have über-micro! Socius dies 
So it would be nice if the fighting doesn't really depend on how quick you can hit buttons else someone who isn't that fast never RP a decent duelist or fighter even if he trains day and night

So hopefully in the end the plans about the fighting itself proposed shouldn't be needed, I know it's going to be dificult doing this, it may even result in a feared in a Turn base system (which can be iritating if the oppent doesn't responde ect. ect.).

And Symy That friendly fighting thing is really nice, although I doubt I would ever fight anyone for fun till I'm nearly death (1%)

Well it seems everyone wants to be a feared dualist so SOMETHING has to seperate them. I dont see why planeshift has to be so focused on combat. You dont hear miners whining because another person can mine more than them because they can hit their shortcut faster. I never saw that much skill in dualing anyway other than run at your opponent, turn around, run at them again. This tactic infact mimics real life much more than the current system would if we stood face to face. Daggers have an advantage in a small space because they can get straight to attacking where as where there is lots of room swords and axes can make some distance and time their attack. I know counting is player skill but I'm sure actualy getting planeshift running requires more skill than being able to count and that would mean we should go point and click because players can get certain places others cant because they can time their jumps and what not. I know its been argued to death but my point is hit and run attacks should be allowed but have their disadvantage, the loss of accuracy and lack of choice of stance. So yes roleplaying is just another type of skill anyway. If you cant play the mass murder then dont, theres plenty out there already. If you cant kick a ball dont play football.


To add to Raleighs:

• make armor dissadvantages larger, someone wearing leather should be much quicker then someone staggering around in full plate

[Socius Rockus]

Well it seems everyone wants to be a feared dualist so SOMETHING has to seperate them. I dont see why planeshift has to be so focused on combat.

it "Seems" to be that way, Maybe because you need PP for training any skill, and fighting gains them waaaaay faster the mining...  Most of the people who fight fight with creatures most of the time, there are litle true duels I've seen, except from some competitions and a few RPs most are just "N00B slaughter" [newbies killing each other because they think tha's the main game goal ]

* Socius Rockus hopes a new skill system will come fast

I never saw that much skill in dualing anyway other than run at your opponent, turn around, run at them again. This tactic infact mimics real life much more than the current system would if we stood face to face.

The current system already covers the dodging part and blocking part, you don't see it unless you open up your system tab... I'm sure that in the end you'll be able to see this happening as you fight.

I know its been argued to death but my point is hit and run attacks should be allowed but have their disadvantage, the loss of accuracy and lack of choice of stance. So yes roleplaying is just another type of skill anyway. If you cant play the mass murder then dont, theres plenty out there already.

First, I didn't say hit and run shouldn't be allowed, I only said the way it works now it's a bit unfair. It may be a good Idea to make a "Hit and run" stance and that the opponent gets the option to pursuit, [am I gonna do it? yes I'm gonna do it!] or just the option that you always pursuit your target (like in GW). Because not everyone is a true weapons fighter, The combat system is also very underestimating Magic, as Raleigh said the spell s are weak, and the bit better spells have a short range, So way easier to duck when you can run away, although there might be an option for "Ducking for magic" stance .
Second, I didn't say Mass murderer, I said Duelists... You know the guys that fight for fun, honor, glory ect. in combat competitions.

If you cant kick a ball don't play football.

[First, this has nothing to do with the topic but I'll say it anyway, It's much more fun and less violent if you play soccer like that ]
So you're saying, people who, like me, lack quick coordination for some RL reason shouldn't be able the sit down relax and RP a nice and friendly knight who fights for good? or a big monstrous vengeance full little dwarf?  Or like I said before a RP a man/woman whose family were brutally murdered by someone unknown and became a duelist to revenge (in their thoughts) hers/his family? Or any other character with a profession or mission that has to do with dueling other players?
Because if that's so, I have to keep myself on a line to not make a reference joke about that.

[Garon]

Oke so the weapons need some fine tunning, But also note that What are you going to do with a puny dagger against some dude with a massive longsword?, also, I don't think dagger can really go through heavy armor you need some massive swing for that.

Daggers won't go through heavy armor, but heavy armor does have to have joints in it so that the wearer can move.... there are plenty of holes that a skilled dagger user could kill you through, most notably  by the neck.

Other then that, if you have a dagger and are against a massive longsword, your best bet is to get on the side of his reach closer to him:  longswords are clumsy at anything less then 2 feet... if you're that close to him with a dagger, you could easily kill him before he could get back at you.

having to slow down gradualy, a sudden stop would result in a complete loss of accuracy. This would stop people running at their opponent then stoping just to be accurate.

I don't see why someone can't charge an opponet and stop at them, its a collision attack.

Charging at someone who has a sword pointed at you is a good way to stick yourself on it, unless you can make sure that sword isn't in the way...  Perhaps you CAN charge at someone, but when you DO, weapon skills and agility are used to determine if they hit you as you're clumsily running at them.  So, in other words, running = easier to hit.

having to slow down gradualy, a sudden stop would result in a complete loss of accuracy. This would stop people running at their opponent then stoping just to be accurate.

Perhaps just coding in a slow down to stop when running, based on agility?  This would mean that those who are agile could easily stop faster then those who aren't, and make abrupt changes in direction.

I'd like to see a "solid body" system during dueling but not otherwise (so that people who would just be problems can't block things like major through roads, but if you're dueling someone, you can't run through them.

(I know, most of these will be hard to code and not come for a long time )

[Quitarias]

About the joints on Plate armor you should know they wore soft clothing on the skin a chainmail on their clothes and then got the plate armor on.So unless a dagger hits hard it wouldnt get through the joints.Also while wearing Heavy armor you should get a speed penalty and endurance should drain at least 2.5 times as fast.
Also i cant think of how leather armor could protect you from a blow that hit,also it would NOT help you dodge a blow at best maybe not make that very task harded.Leather armor should be pretty worthless in-fact since its just anotherlayer of skin and skin doesent stop a huge axe coming down on you.But leather armor should offer a bonus to sneaking since skin doesent cause noise when it moves.Basicaly it would be a garm for thieves.
Asfor the dodge issue its actualy a skill based purely on ones reaction time and agility.I dont need teachers to learn how to side step at speed maybe training but no teachers.I think it should be a proportional skill based on agility.
Also for the weapon issue.Mostly a battle was parrying untill you eventualy got tired or found a weakspot in the opponents defense.Thats why there should be another proportion that calculates parrying based on your weapon skill.
Also as for blocking.Light armor should offer a very small if any chance to block.Medium should slow your dodge a bit but offer a greater chance at dodging.And heavy armor should decrease your dodgeing to nearly 0 but offer a nearly unbreakable blocking.
That wasmy thoughts on this hope they help.

[zanzibar]

Also as for blocking.Light armor should offer a very small if any chance to block.Medium should slow your dodge a bit but offer a greater chance at dodging.And heavy armor should decrease your dodgeing to nearly 0 but offer a nearly unbreakable blocking.

First off, hit and run attacks will be eliminated from the game and all wishes should take that into account.

Secondly, maces and morning stars were basically can openers which were used because they were especially effective against plate armour.  So while heavy armour is good against swords, heavy armour is extremely vulnerable to certain other weapons.

Light armour might not be good for blocking, but it should be better for dodging than medium armour is.

[Narure]

Who said hit and run was being taken out. Forgive my ignorance.

[zanzibar]

Who said hit and run was being taken out. Forgive my ignorance.

Xordan, for one.

I don\'t see any problem with [hit and run fighting] atm as everyone can do it. In the future you won\'t be able to do this most likely.

[Kuiper7986]

Well there'd have to be a balance between "what's feasible" or "what's practical," I guess it's really what can be better accomplished.