Cut & Paste

[drah]

Eldoreth.. if someone wants to use copy/paste to be abusive, they could use a macro-app or use something like the Windows 'SendKeys' API, it wouldn't necessarily be a big problem.

I think any chat-output from the client should be truncated at a certain size (1-2kb maybe?) (I'm pretty sure that PS already has a maximum size for chat, etc. though - otherwise it'd be far too easy for a malicious user to become a pain)

Well... Induane hit the nail on the head.

And it's being worked on... so... yay!

[eldoth_terevan]

Just wanted to be clear. The ideas are good from a user standpoint. However, allowing for paste from anywhere directly into the client may sound simple, but it is not. It is actually rather complex. There is a lot of possible data that could be submitted into the client, and passed around then within the client and possibly back to the server. The amount of work that would have to go into testing this would be substantial in order to avoid exploits and hacks. Besides, when I want to get data into the client now, like guild or story information, I just edit the shortcuts in the XML directly prior to going in game.

[Raleigh]

Just wanted to be clear. The ideas are good from a user standpoint. However, allowing for paste from anywhere directly into the client may sound simple, but it is not. It is actually rather complex. There is a lot of possible data that could be submitted into the client, and passed around then within the client and possibly back to the server. The amount of work that would have to go into testing this would be substantial in order to avoid exploits and hacks. Besides, when I want to get data into the client now, like guild or story information, I just edit the shortcuts in the XML directly prior to going in game.

I don't remember of playing any computer game that had cut and paste as a feature, 'cept if you think MS Paint is a game...

Although this is a good idea, realistically I think it's a dead end(and probably a development nightmare too), or it would be commonplace in commercial games.

[Earl_Listbard]

Maybe we're just smarter then commercial developers

[Narure]

Commercial developers are a tad more concerned about people advertising other products ingame.

[Induane]

I've been following the development of the copy/paste code and I can definately say its complex.  Linux and windows are working though they still need optimization work, plus some of the code has to go into the CS tree too so getting it all working has been tough. OSX support is in the works too but also not finished.  One issue is that the person who was working on it used to have CVS access for it but no longer does, and so there is no guarantee that the copy/paste code will even be accepted   I bet if enough people really wanted it though it might make a difference.

[Raleigh]

I've been following the development of the copy/paste code and I can definately say its complex.  Linux and windows are working though they still need optimization work, plus some of the code has to go into the CS tree too so getting it all working has been tough. OSX support is in the works too but also not finished.  One issue is that the person who was working on it used to have CVS access for it but no longer does, and so there is no guarantee that the copy/paste code will even be accepted   I bet if enough people really wanted it though it might make a difference.

This would be a strike against efficiency and against the struggle of someone. If a significant amount of work was already putted into this idea, then I think it should go forward and finally Planeshift will have something no other MMORPG has(besides a community where the "RP"  from the acronym has a meaning of course). Shortcutting may do the same thing, but not on the same practical way and ease of use of a "Cut and Paste" function, plus it is more flexible than shortcutting as well.

[zanzibar]

I think this feature would be very useful, but I also think it would hurt the realism of the game.  In real life, you would hear something once and then you write down what you remember or what you think you heard.  I have to give it a thumbs down for that reason.

[bilbous]

In real life I would ask someone for whom I am doing a complicated or multi-part task to give me a list of what he needs done and expect that if he requires a bunch of items I could give them all at once as might be possible. If they hold a position of superiority they could expect me to write things down, but if they really want it done right they would still give me precise written instructions and go over them with me to be certain I was clear on what was expected. There might be secrecy considerations for not having written instructions but that is besides the point.

This is a game and complete realism cannot ever be attained. I would suggest that this is an ergonomic measure which would enhance game play. Other opinions are no less valid although I may not agree with them.

[Draklar]

I think this would a god send to any story teller or event host. Instead of the way people have to do it now; type everything out ahead of time, before you even start anything so you can scroll up to find the text you have entered, but if your system or client crashes, all is lost, the same for server probs. All the work is gone and everything is put on hold untill you re-enter everything.

The same rules would apply to prevent spammers, a simple /report, or a message to a GM.

Did I understand you correctly? There are people who actually write down enormous chunks of text and push it forth at once? I never came across anything like that. All the storytellers I've seen wrote the tales on the spot sentence after sentence. It allowed better communication between the bard and the listeners, due to them being able to interrupt him at any given moment. And that's actually what I expect from storytelling event. If I've seen someone paste the entire story at once, I'd simply ignore it. It's much more convenient to just go to the forums and read whatever I find there. Then at least my character isn't acting like a mindless zombie "listening" to the story, while there's an ongoing conversation that I won't be aware of beneath the large chunk of text. Now participating in quite a bit of storytelling myself, I wrote everything on the spot. And that was the entire point of it. Then I had a full control over the story-to-environment situation. I could influence the story itself to better fit what was going on around. I would create quite the gatherings when people kept coming into the tavern and stay there lured by the tale. What's the role-playing value of simply pasting the entire text at once or even chunk after chunk? In the latter case you're also telling your story like a machine, unchanged, even though your surroundings would require otherwise.

[zanzibar]

In real life I would ask someone for whom I am doing a complicated or multi-part task to give me a list of what he needs done and expect that if he requires a bunch of items I could give them all at once as might be possible.

Paper is rare in Planeshift.

[eldoth_terevan]

I don't remember of playing any computer game that had cut and paste as a feature, 'cept if you think MS Paint is a game...

I didn't propose this idea. With the amount of typing in PS, I can understand why some would want it. Personally, I don't. The devs have other things to work on.

[Induane]

There are people who actually write down enormous chunks of text and push it forth at once? I never came across anything like that. All the storytellers I've seen wrote the tales on the spot sentence after sentence.

I've known people like that... you play more than I do Draklar, and have played longer so I'm surprised you haven't.  Or it could be that you just didn't know that they wrote it out in advance....  Plus even I have done it.  Just because its not quite as involved with story to environment doesn't mean its worse storytelling, just different.  Let those who want the feature use it - its not mandatory  

[bilbous]

I would think that it would be done by preparing bite sized chunks of the story in advance so that you can interpose extemporaneous chatter in between the chunks to respond to questions or comments as needed. If I were to try to tell a story of a couple pages length it could take me half an hour or more real time just in typing if I knew what it was I was saying and possibly more if I was thinking and making it up on the spot. On the other hand it would take no more than five minutes to speak it. Not everyone who plays the game types ninety words a minute and among those who don't their may be valuable contributions to be made that would be otherwise slighted. This also would be a great benefit to the disabled.

As far as paper being limited goes, effectively that is a crock as I can buy 10000 maps to write upon. Perhaps a limit is the intent and you have a theoretical point in that but paper is not the only thing that can be written upon, are you telling me there is no clay or rock that can be inscribed with chisel or magic? Writing was not made possible with the invention of paper, it was just made more convenient.