Author Topic: Review of Planeshift - list of complaints  (Read 5927 times)

Roahn

  • Hydlaa Resident
  • *
  • Posts: 50
    • View Profile
Review of Planeshift - list of complaints
« on: May 11, 2007, 07:28:46 am »
My recent review of Planeshift is below, and lists many of the reasons I have left the game. I'm sure I'll get flamed for this, but hopefully some of it will be used constructively, and maybe lead to future improvements. Also note that this was written for an online game review site, so the target audience is for someone who has not played Planeshift before.

Pros:
Free, cross-platform

Cons:
Not improving, lame controls, combat, magic, models

Full user opinion
The idea of Planeshift is a good one, and it has potential... unfortunately the game lacks in so many areas that have not been addressed for well over a year.

Controls: 1 out of 10.
The controls are very clunky. Mouse control is unstable, so most people use use arrow keys to move around, ala Tomb Raider from too many years ago.

Models: 2 out of 10
There are over a dozen races... but only a few models, so the females in 7 races all use the same model! Imagine, the elf-type, lizard-type, human-type and others all use the same model as the demon type race!

Skins: 1 out of 10
There are no custom skins. Look around town... all dwarves look the same. All humans look the same. All human males even are stuck with the same beard. Rock-people look the same. The only difference is hair color. You could put on armor, which shows up on some races, but then you look exactly like all others wearing armor.

World: 3 out of 10
There is only one world, and it is tiny compared to other MMORPG games, but since there are usually only 70 to 250 players online at a time, it is big enough to not be crowded.

There are three main areas in the world: the main city of Hydlaa, the town of Ojaveda, and a big area called Bronze Door for some stupid reason that has couple of lakes, a mine inside a mountain, and a keep by a waterfall. However, almost no thought has gone into placement of monsters. Most areas in the hills and valleys are barren of life. In the huge section of Bronze Door, there is a total of only TWO monsters, two identical rogues standing next to each other. So one third of the world is practically devoid of monsters. However go into the main city into a building called the Arena, and you will find hundreds of monsters packed practically shoulder to shoulder. Where is the motivation to explore?

Monsters: 2 out of 10
There are only a few different monster models. Two monsters can be the same exact race, size and skin, but one will be as easy to kill as a rat, while the other will be almost impossible to kill. Monster animations are very primitive, and their AI is nonexistent. They just walk toward you slowly.

Animations: 1 out of 10
Animations are one of the worst things in this game. In fact, there are almost no animations. Even in combat, most characters just change stance, and don't even make a swinging motion with their weapons.

Sounds: 1 out of 10
There are almost no sounds in Planeshift other than some repetitive music. Monsters make no sounds. Weapons make no sounds. Combat is silent. No footsteps. Only a few magic spells make a "charging-up" sound as they are cast.

Weapons: 1 out of 10
There are only a handful of weapon classes. They are not balanced, so nearly everyone uses short swords or daggers. Only "noobies" ever use claymores, broadswords or most other blades. ALL shortswords look identical. ALL daggers look identical. There are dozens of different types of weapons that can be looted, like "Darkweave Dagger" or "Short Sword of Enlightenment." A few of these might boost a stat by 4 or 5 or 10 points... but no thought at all was put into these. First, the few that do boost only boost a tiny percentage (like a person with 200 strength might get boosted to 205... deal). Second, most cannot be equipped by weaker characters... the ones who would benefit most from a +5 to strength. Thirdly, all of these "special" weapons do far less damage than a "crafted" weapons. The result: everybody runs around with the same weapons: either crafted short swords, or crafted daggers. All the "special" weapons are useless.

Magic: 2 out of 10
Magic exists in Planeshift, but there are only 16 or so spells that can be learned. Of these, only 3 or 4 are even somewhat useful, and they are terribly underpowered and slow. Nobody uses magic in "real" combat. Also, magic often does not improve as you go up in level. Example: Spend months and ungodly amounts of money on training to use the healing spell to level 80... but you will only heal about 10% better than someone who is only level 1.

Potions: 1 out of 10
There are a few potions that can temporarily boost your stats, but these only boost one stat, and only 5 to 8 points at most, and they do not stack. So someone with a 200 strength can only boost to 205 at most, and the boost only lasts 2 or 3 minutes. Utterly useless.

Magic items: 1 out of 10
There are almost no magic items in Planeshift. There is a ring that can give you a "familiar," a small puppy-like animal, but it is useless and buggy. It will not fight, cannot be attacked, is not animated. The only thing it can do is follow you, and even that is buggy and only works half the time. Also it can only be summoned for about 5 minutes per day (real world 24 hours).

Quests: 2 out of 10
Quests are done by "talking" to NPCs. A handful of quests are slightly challenging or interesting, but the majority of them are just acts of frustration trying to guess the right phrases and spelling to get an NPC to answer you. 95% of NPC responses are "I don't understand you" or "Try speaking English." Sometimes saying something like "Please tell me about the holy scroll" will not work, but "about scroll" will work. I've even seen quests where you must misspell a word to get it to work!

Interaction: 2 out of 10
You cannot interact with the world. There are no doors that open or close. No carts or mounts or magic carpets. There are numerous flaws in the world where your toe can lodge, and you'll be stuck. There is an "unstick" command, but that often will not get you unstuck, nor will relogging. Sometimes your only option is to kill yourself.

Gamemasters: 2 out of 10
Gamemasters are, for the most part, the "police" of Planeshift. They rarely participate in any RPs, and on the rare occasions that they do, it is usually very boring, and people usually just participate with it to get a reward at the end (sometimes nothing, sometimes a few experience points, or once in a while a rare item).

I get the impression that most Gamemasters are young, as most lack any skills at conflict resolution, or stopping serious harassment. They are often quite rude and unhelpful. Example: A friend was trying to get to a major in-game event (a wedding). They traveled across the whole map, only to get their toe stuck between two small rocks (a bug) when she was almost there. She tried "unsticking" and relogging, but couldn't get out. When a GM was politely asked "Can you please move me from between these rocks?" The GM replied, "We don't do that anymore. You will have to kill yourself." She finally had to do this, and ended up missing the wedding.

Server: 2 out of 10
The game server is quite unstable at times. Often when the game server is up, the "npc server" will be down for hours or even days at a time. When this happens, all monsters become like statues.

Planeshift is a "pre-alpha playable demo," and this is a fitting description. Problems like I mentioned would be expected in a game in this stage, however almost all of these problems are in exactly the same stage as they were 18 months ago when I started playing. Back then it was pre-alpha, today it is a pre-alpha, and my guess is that next year it will still be a pre-alpha.

-Roahn

Karyuu

  • Forum Legend
  • *
  • Posts: 9341
    • View Profile
Re: Review of Planeshift - list of complaints
« Reply #1 on: May 11, 2007, 07:42:05 am »
What can I say, except "You know, we know, and thank you for your time."

If you can help us, do it. The team application is a link in my signature.
Judge: Are you trying to show contempt for this court, Mr Smith?
Smith: No, My Lord. I am attempting to conceal it.

Fyre

  • Traveller
  • *
  • Posts: 25
    • View Profile
Re: Review of Planeshift - list of complaints
« Reply #2 on: May 11, 2007, 08:38:27 am »
I have read the entire post and have to agree, (with the exception of the GM comments, of which I have no experience), that there are valid problems in all mentioned areas. I wouldn't rate each as harshly as you have, but I understand your sentiments.   I also believe that the devs are trying to address many of these  issues---and it will take time.  Yet I can only admire the world which has been created, and continues to improve.  There's also more to this world than simply its gameplay...that is the citizens one gets to know.  It appears to me that someone is always "stepping up" at the need to help others, or tell a tale, or set up a picnic, or even help you with the dreaded "NPC exact wording".  And I've been fortunate enough to make some valued friends in my travels.  So, although I recognize many shortcomings, I also see that this is a fine work and I am grateful to all involved in the project.  And it's free, aka a gift, so accept it or leave it alone.

It's a shame that your review might prevent some from the experience many of us enjoy.

Reikar

  • Traveller
  • *
  • Posts: 38
    • View Profile
Re: Review of Planeshift - list of complaints
« Reply #3 on: May 11, 2007, 09:28:44 am »
you guys do realize that this is a  :beta: and is still in construction. This is also being made by people who are not being paid to my knowledge, and are working on it in their free time. i understand what you are saying but you are comparing this to fully developed games that have huge teams of people who are being paid top dollar to make games. I'm sorry but this is not one of those games (personally, i'm glad it  is the way it is. If it wasn't, it wouldn't have gathered such a great community).

Just remember good games take time to make, and even the best designed game can turn into crap with a bad community.
As I stand here looking into the heavens, I begin to see forms familiar to me. All whom I have killed have come to mock me. I turn away, only to see the abyss, enticing me towards it. There is no turning back now, only one way to go. So I head into the abyss, the nothingness, the future unseen.

ruskie

  • Traveller
  • *
  • Posts: 14
    • View Profile
    • ruskie
Re: Review of Planeshift - list of complaints
« Reply #4 on: May 11, 2007, 11:19:12 am »
Quote
you guys do realize that this is a  :beta: and is still in construction. This is also being made by people who are not being paid to my knowledge, and are working on it in their free time. i understand what you are saying but you are comparing this to fully developed games that have huge teams of people who are being paid top dollar to make games. I'm sorry but this is not one of those games (personally, i'm glad it  is the way it is. If it wasn't, it wouldn't have gathered such a great community).

Just remember good games take time to make, and even the best designed game can turn into crap with a bad community.
* ruskie bows to the great wisdom of Reikar

Hit it bang on... and this is the main reason I like Free Software be it games or any other apps...

Everything starts with the community and ends with it as well. It's the community that either supports it or doesn't.
Personaly I wish I could help out with planeshift development but my skills as a C/C++ coder are more or less non-existant beyond small
patches here and there...

I must say I have to disagree with some of the review...

Quote
The controls are very clunky. Mouse control is unstable, so most people use use arrow keys to move around, ala Tomb Raider from too many years ago.

I acctually like using the keyboard a lot. I only use some things like long walks(mouse run) or when initiating interaction with other players
i.e. trade, talk to an npc, use etc... with the mouse. The shortcut system is great and makes doing things easily.

Quote
There are no custom skins. Look around town... all dwarves look the same. All humans look the same. All human males even are stuck with the same beard. Rock-people look the same. The only difference is hair color. You could put on armor, which shows up on some races, but then you look exactly like all others wearing armor.

Hmmm I don't get that impression. Yes many look the same but so do in other games until they work more on it... There are some that
look the same though most noticably the Kran but from my perspective I've seen many different and unique characters.

Quote
There is only one world, and it is tiny compared to other MMORPG games, but since there are usually only 70 to 250 players online at a time, it is big enough to not be crowded.

It's slowly growing as the developers have time to make new areas. I haven't even explored it all and I've been playing for 4 days so far.

Quote
There are a few potions that can temporarily boost your stats, but these only boost one stat, and only 5 to 8 points at most, and they do not stack. So someone with a 200 strength can only boost to 205 at most, and the boost only lasts 2 or 3 minutes. Utterly useless.

I guess you haven't played many pen and paper roleplaying games... 2-3 minutes is ussualy enough to complete many combat rounds
in most of them and that's where potions are supposed to be used... To gain a quick, small and short advantage over your oponent...

I won't comment on the other points as that would be duplicating my existing post in this section...

oningo

  • Traveller
  • *
  • Posts: 30
    • View Profile
Re: Review of Planeshift - list of complaints
« Reply #5 on: May 11, 2007, 02:23:20 pm »
Hmm .. well after reading the first post in this thread, i guess it is a fair roundup of the state of the game to other experienced people who play other MMORPG i suppose. However this being my first MMORPG  :-[ , i cannot opine on the comparisons and benchmarking made thereof  :sleeping: . I am thinking maybe the poster has done this, and also posted it here so others can view it, mostly the dev and settings team. The post seems to me as 'constructive criticism' ...and i do mean both those words together..so please dont quote me as saying criticism   ::| .....'constructive criticism' in a hope to politely alert the community as a whole (devs, settings team and players) to maybe some short comings in the game. Well... we all know in huge projects, sometimes while prioritizing work some aspects may get overlooked, or maybe forgotten/delayed for too long. I think this particular post is very positive, as a 'tester' (player) has  made the community to pause and think, re prioritize maybe, and continue with the building of the game.

On the matter that it was a review, benchmarking and comparing it to fully developed games (i am assuming here) ..well.. to each his own i guess. The bottom line is... a tester has given his feedback in a constructive manner   :thumbup: [hmm externally too   :( ] . I think it would be a good idea for the dev and settings team, who are more in charge of prioritizing and developing the game to use it as a check list. Maybe they will find that this is exactly what they had intended 2 years ago for the the state of the game today to be  :whistling: ..if not..then it can help them re prioritize   :sorcerer:.
« Last Edit: May 11, 2007, 02:26:48 pm by oningo »

Karyuu

  • Forum Legend
  • *
  • Posts: 9341
    • View Profile
Re: Review of Planeshift - list of complaints
« Reply #6 on: May 11, 2007, 03:16:34 pm »
We know exactly what our shortcomings are, and several things are missing because we lack the manpower to do them. It's as simple as that.
Judge: Are you trying to show contempt for this court, Mr Smith?
Smith: No, My Lord. I am attempting to conceal it.

ThomPhoenix

  • Testers
  • Forum Addict
  • *
  • Posts: 2678
  • A Phoenix, what'd you expect?
    • View Profile
Re: Review of Planeshift - list of complaints
« Reply #7 on: May 11, 2007, 03:52:44 pm »
You're negative on 99,9% of Planeshift. You're also not well informed.
Some examples:
-You can notice GMs are very young people: Nope, you have to be at least 21 to join the GM team.
-The Bronze Doors area is called that way "for some stupid reason": The fortress there is actually guarding the Bronze Doors, an entrance to the Stone Labyrinths. You're just not paying attention.
-There are only 16 spells: There are more than 16 glyphs currently available, all with spells.
-Planeshift is not improving: Wow, you must miss all the releases or something. New quests, better quests, better stability, new areas, more NPCs, the PvP area, changed combat and skills; you missed it all apparently!

Despite that, there's something to be said for all your comments. But that's because Planeshift is a "pre-alpha" game. You don't go make reviews about those ;)
« Last Edit: May 11, 2007, 03:54:23 pm by ThomPhoenix »
We're not evil. We're simply amazing.

Draklar

  • Forum Legend
  • *
  • Posts: 4422
    • View Profile
Re: Review of Planeshift - list of complaints
« Reply #8 on: May 11, 2007, 04:23:30 pm »
Also note that this was written for an online game review site
I'd like to see that. Someone actually accepting this poor excuse for a whining fest as a review for their website :P
If I were to give some points for the above review, I think it would be 4 out of 10.
It all comes down to this:
The minimal point (1) - 1
Structure (0-2) - 1 <it isn't random, but it isn't a review structure either>
Coherence, grammar, etc. (0-2) - 1 <all is okay, but nothing special>
Content (0-5) - 1 <somewhat misleading, lack of proper game introduction>

There is absolutely no introduction for the review or Planeshift for that matter. A person not familiar with the game wouldn't even realise what you're talking about. No information about the background, no information on the setting. Is it futuristic? Modern? Medieval. No nothing. There is also no information about your initial experience with the game. I can easily conclude here that the point of the text isn't to provide a decent review for the reader, but rather to let out your frustration. It would also be a smart move to introduce the history of the game as well as point out its current stage of development. You bring up the latter in the concluding part, but anyone who has any idea about writing essays and paragraphs will tell you that it should appear both in introduction and conclusion.
On to the main body. This doesn't look like a review. It's a list, and as the topic of this thread implies, it's a list of complains. Why should a random reader care about your complains for a game they have never heard about? Especially when you don't make any introduction. Your text doesn't draw any attention, ergo it won't make anyone want to read on.
The text is coherent and grammatically correct, however there are places where it lacks cohesion. You keep repeating phrase "there are", while some sentences are overly basic and lack any cohesive devices. That's why I give you only one point for this part. The structure of sentences is far from being impressive.
As I already insinuated, the content is very poor. You don't provide any deeper information about the game and the reader has to read between lines to figure out what the setting for the game may be. You should pay more attention to that considering there's lots to write about. The setting is somewhat unique, especially the location is. If you mentioned it in the introduction, you could actually draw some interest. You should also mention what player-base the project aims at. Reader needs to know whether it's meant for role-players or fans of hack&slash games. From the content of your "review" I assume you're the latter. What points me to this conclusion is yourself mentioning how the open areas are largely void of beasts, whereas arena is filled with them.
...That would be just about right, no? It's pretty obvious the arena would have more fighting going on in it. It's "arena" for gods' sake! My conclusion is also supported by the fact you see no motivation for exploring other than fighting the monsters. Here I find another problem, in fact. It seems you write your review for the players of hack&slash games, whilst the dev team aims Planeshift for the role-players. In my opinion you should write it with thought of as many types of mmo players as possible. However, that of course can be hard to do if you're going to remain highly subjective.
Next problem: The points awarded are obviously a result of a serious bias and you should realise there's something wrong with your review when early-development game that grew from 10-30 to 70-250 players online at any one moment over the last 4 years gets review that is 2/10 on the average. Especially when the developers don't actually get any money from the project. Read: they do it in their free time, as a hobby. Considering all the above, the progress of Planeshift has been very impressive over the last few years.
Now. Some of your complains are simply amusing. It's pretty obvious once you put on full armour, you will look like all the other people that do the same. I really don't get it what you complain about in this part. Furthermore, most regular players have descriptions of their characters that anyone can look at. Planeshift is a game aimed at people with imagination and more visual variety doesn't really stand as a priority at the current stage of development.
Your complains have strong basis (hence one point), but they lack objectivity and very often appear to be forced (not to mention they can be considered arguable). Moreover, you forget about many good parts of Planeshift. Community is a certain high score, considering it's much better than in most mmo games.
AKA Skald

Proglin

  • Hydlaa Citizen
  • *
  • Posts: 460
    • View Profile
Re: Review of Planeshift - list of complaints
« Reply #9 on: May 11, 2007, 04:25:48 pm »
I've written an entire post explaining about how wrong you were. but dammit you don't even desreve it if you're as shortsighted as you demonstrate in your post Rhoan.

You stare yourself blind at things that need improving and refuse to see what has been improving.

It would not have been a problem if all your useless comments were personal oppinions, but your thread is pure pointing and screaming.

Go play World of Warcraft.
yours, the entertainer

Araye

  • Hydlaa Citizen
  • *
  • Posts: 277
    • View Profile
    • The Enlightened
Re: Review of Planeshift - list of complaints
« Reply #10 on: May 11, 2007, 04:27:09 pm »
Roahn, I agree with your summation...  but it sounds totally negative.  You played for 18 months, there must have been something that kept you coming back other than, "I hope it's changed today."  You didn't list that reason or "rate" it.  Whatever it was, it is a positive that you failed to mention.

PlaneShift has changed drastically since I've been playing.  I have seen significant improvements and I know they are working on it.  I do not expect them to ever be anymore than pre-alpha though, so I'm never disappointed.   ;D

We all know the handful of people working on PS are doing their very best.  I for one applaud their efforts.  Karyuu has even started a section for public contributions.  This alone is a MAJOR change and I hope it helps fill in the details while maintaining Talad's demand for the highest quality content.

@Thom, no disrespect, but "at least 21" IS very young.  And the additional spells you speak of cannot be attained or cast yet without potion boosting your character.  Roahn knows spells better than most.  And when you do cast them, these super high level spells, they're worthless.  This is not to say, "PS sucks", I'm just stating a well known flaw in the magic system.  Right Xordan?   ;D

Roahn, I will miss you, but I think you'll be back.

Araye

LARAGORN

  • Veteran
  • *
  • Posts: 1252
  • Facts dont cease to exist because they are ignored
    • View Profile
Re: Review of Planeshift - list of complaints
« Reply #11 on: May 11, 2007, 04:36:24 pm »
I have to agree with ThomPhoenix 100% here. Although the list covers many areas, it is very clear Roahn didnt pay to much attention to the settings at all. If it took 18 months to compile a list that any noob could do in less than 1 week, it speaks volumes as to the creater of such a list.

I think it would only be fair of Roahn to tell us what site this article will be on, so there would be an oppertunity for either criteque(sp) or a review from someone who understands the entire position and workings of PS development.

All great truthes begin as blasphemies- SHAW
Adraax KCP Adraax Forum

Reikar

  • Traveller
  • *
  • Posts: 38
    • View Profile
Re: Review of Planeshift - list of complaints
« Reply #12 on: May 11, 2007, 04:41:39 pm »
We know exactly what our shortcomings are, and several things are missing because we lack the manpower to do them. It's as simple as that.

I'd also like to mention that alot of free MMO's that are out there tend to use generic tools specially designed for making mmo's or they hack P2P games and make free emulations of those games, which is also partially responsible for the massive amounts of mmo's clone out there. While there are games out there that are original and technically free, they tend to get a larger budget from "perk donations'(basically where you get special rewards for giving them money) and are able to do more, but these games suffer from alot as well from this. They tend to have more lag, more power levelers and leets, as well as more hacking, cracking, duping, as well as some other undesirable elements.
As I stand here looking into the heavens, I begin to see forms familiar to me. All whom I have killed have come to mock me. I turn away, only to see the abyss, enticing me towards it. There is no turning back now, only one way to go. So I head into the abyss, the nothingness, the future unseen.

Illyria

  • Hydlaa Resident
  • *
  • Posts: 157
  • ...Or here?
    • View Profile
    • Socii Acerbus Socii guildhouse
Re: Review of Planeshift - list of complaints
« Reply #13 on: May 11, 2007, 05:31:20 pm »
Oh oh oh! Don't forget we don't have to pay for it! That is a major lack, Every BIG online game (whether PRG, FPD or RTS ).
Also we miss T-shirts! RL prizes with tournaments!
And don't forget we don't have Fascist Gm's  :-\ I feel sad, many games have them.
But  the thing I dislike the most would be That the 'makers' of this game are pretty original  ::| I mean, what game is these days? Original is for Old 8-bit comp n00bs!

[/me sniffs the air and faints at the smelling of lots of sarcasm]

ThomPhoenix

  • Testers
  • Forum Addict
  • *
  • Posts: 2678
  • A Phoenix, what'd you expect?
    • View Profile
Re: Review of Planeshift - list of complaints
« Reply #14 on: May 11, 2007, 07:30:08 pm »
@Thom, no disrespect, but "at least 21" IS very young.
If you make it seem the GMs are all a bunch of 12 year olds harassing everyone they can, you could say that 21 years is quite old :)

You played for 18 months, there must have been something that kept you coming back other than, "I hope it's changed today."  You didn't list that reason or "rate" it.  Whatever it was, it is a positive that you failed to mention.
I agree with this.

The problem of this thread is being reflected by it's title: Is this a review or just another "list of complaints"?
« Last Edit: May 11, 2007, 07:32:16 pm by ThomPhoenix »
We're not evil. We're simply amazing.