stop guild nomads

[zanzibar]

Kick everyone from the guild and tell them to RP geting into it....I wonder how many would come back.

Uh, maybe I'm stupid, but what does this have to do with anything?

[ruskie]

The main thing I'd like is to automaticaly ignore all guild invites... I don't care about guilds nor do I want to be in one... Even better... remove the GUILD tab for people NOT in a guild...

[zanzibar]

Guild leaders (or anyone the guild leader gives the right to do so) could do an ingame search of what public (non-secret) guilds that character has been in, in what order, and for how long. This would not be OOC info, as the city would very likely keep track of these statistics.

I don't see any reason why the city would keep such detailed records.  Further, what city are you talking about, since there are many different cities in the Planeshift world.  It just doesn't make sense.

[Under the moon]

Why? Why does any government keep track of what its people are doing? Obviously you have not looked into economics, taxs, population planning, services, more taxes, demographics, politics, more taxes, power, religion, crime.... shall I go on? There are hundreds of reasons a 'city' would keep track of what organizations a person has belonged to.

I meant all cites. But you bring up a good point. If guilds were city based, then you should only be able to check the records of the guilds residing in the city you are in at the time.

[Raleigh]

Why? Why does any government keep track of what its people are doing? Obviously you have not looked into economics, taxs, population planning, services, more taxes, demographics, politics, more taxes, power, religion, crime.... shall I go on? There are hundreds of reasons a 'city' would keep track of what organizations a person has belonged to.

I meant all cites. But you bring up a good point. If guilds were city based, then you should only be able to check the records of the guilds residing in the city you are in at the time.

AHEM! Remember Yliakum isn't orwellian, so no surveillance cameras, spies or highly trustworthy, accurate records stored on computers, the possibility of fraud is not small, and from the way it looks, bureaucracy opens lots of space for it. Also I don't think secret organizations would be interested on being known and having an official status.

[Feline Prince]

Maybe guild leaders have to fill in a census type thing with a tick list of all their members and can untick any that they don't want people to know about.

[Under the moon]

Raleigh, please read though what has been written in this thread before you comment. Secrect guilds would be exempt. No one ever said anything about spies or cameras either. Feline Prince has the right of it. You have to officially signs someone into your guild. That would show up in your guild records (make note to request ingame guild records), which the government would have every right to request be turned into them regularly. Then there is the issue of guild houses and fees. Like it or not, the govenment -would- try to keep track of this type of info. They are already starting keeping track of a similar type of info already, if you have been paying attention to the faction system. Would they know what you had for lunch? No. But they could easily find out what guilds you have been in.

The way it is now, anyone has to be wary of every single person they invite into their guild, as there is no way to check a character's records in an IC manner.

Perhaps one would even have to pay to have the records looked up.

[Raleigh]

Sounds too far-fetched to think such kind of records are perfectly accurate, and completely safe from fraud, or omission, for example, specially in a world where Information Technology means nothing. Unless we assume a 100% foolproof register system for that type of information, something that is outrighteously absurd.

Remember there is something called reputation as well, and rumors can be, although less reliable, much more fast, cheap and less bureaucratic than checking on a bunch of paperwork to verify somebody's loyalties and past. I have to say that the best solution lies in something that is believable and truly possible. And I'm full of government here and there as well, in the best RPGs I saw, either government participation is minimal and it is based on a big adventure, or government is just something truly evil to be taken down, destroyed, or something relatively good on the blink of destruction to be saved. I say let's go lasseiz-faire for Yliakum, and from the way things are going, it sounds much more believable and I asure you, it will be much more interesting for many people.

Registers are not completely safe from fraud, tax evasion is not something uncommon in any realistic environment, and corruption is not simply a legend. A way NPCs gradually have rumors about Player Characters("What do you know about *PlayerCharacterX*?") as they become more famous or infamous sounds more believable.

[Feline Prince]

Maybe a percentage of guilds entries for their records are checked against the actual truth and if too many of them fail to be accurate a 'government investigation' is issued were any 'good' NPC will ask your character for their details, one of the questions being to say what guild they are in. Obviously those on the ball could still lie each time.

[Under the moon]

If you want a realistic system, them characters should have to bribe NPCs to remove their names from the lists. The problem this thread is about is guild jumping, and the lack of ability to control, or even know about it. A simple ability to check backgrounds is both realistic and usefull. If you are so against the government doing it, then toss in an NPC guild dedicted to gathering and selling information on people. But, if you ask me, that is far more invasive and creepy, and they -would- know where you have been, who you talked to... and what you had for lunch... All for sale to the highest bidder.

Actually, now that I think about it, I rather do like that idea. >:)

[Raleigh]

I will suppot the other way, it is possible NPCs will eventually acquire knowledge about PCs activities as they become more notorious, and inform rumors about these PCs on many things, including potential "guilds" they left, joined and such.

Then instead of going all the way around bureaucracy and paperwork that would be needed to know that, you just ask to a NPC who lives nearby the PC center of activity, something like "Tell me about *PCx*" or "What do you know about *PCx*?". I think it's better and more fitting for a "medieval" world than organized, trustworthy and foolproof records. And the question of implementing bribes or making falsified records will not be necessary to worry about then, as they won't exist for that and thus won't need to be implemented, and knowing this is a free game and all, having something based on reputation where NPCs gather random information through a simple algorithm about somebody rather than a complex system with documents that can be modified by leaders of guilds and all the rest is simpler. Sometimes Keeping It Simple Stupid isn't so bad as it sounds.

Actually, now that I think about it, I rather do like that idea. >

I would definitively support it, if this game was called "Nineteen Eighty-Four" or "Brave New World", however, as it isn't, I believe it will disfigurate the Settings, as Yliakum isn't a State/Mob Rule dystopia, therefore I stand completely against it.

[bilbous]

Do you think a God might be able to look at you and read your entire existence in a blink of an eye? Do you further suppose that a sufficiently powerful mage might not do the same with a thirty minute spell? In a world with magic, privacy is only as good as your warding magics and anything a God wants to know can only be protected by an equally powerful God.

That covers theoretical considerations anything else is just a matter of what, how and if anything should be implemented.

[eldoth_terevan]

I actually love the simplicity of the existing system. Also, it makes the game very interesting. Please don't change it. Thank you.

[Under the moon]

Releigh, simply put, you are being naive. Information gathering and selling, spying, and leaders keeping close tabs on their people is not a new “1984” concept. It has been done for thousands of years, and to a far greater extent than a simple guild check. You are arguing this pretty hard, and keep bringing up fraud. Got something to hide?

You also keep bringing up that this type of thing would not happen in medieval times. Better brush up on your history.

Edit* Ahem. And if you do not think this game is both a State and mob(the people) rule, you should have a closer look at what goes on in the game with the players, and pay a bit more attention to a cetain group of quests. There is something stirring...

[Quitarias]

Personaly i think it would be fun to bee able to keep a record of a guilds activities.Something like books.That would also open up a huge posibillity for the great mwriters here to write about fantastric adventures or say the imperial trade guild (just using as an example) to keep its logs.

You must admit that would rock.To a certain degree to say the least.


Edit:to avoid going off topic ill add that guilds would be able to add people to a list and maybe put it to the library.That way if you REALY wanted to know if someone guild hops you would have to look for logs of the guild and talk to the guild members in the instances that there are no logs or entries that serve your needs.