The RP environment (thinking roleplaying rules)

[bilbous]

Personally I never use leet speek in context, if I need to laugh I type "Hahahhaha" or "Hehheh" or something along those lines depending on how amusing I think I or the person I am talking to is. I rarely use /me or my. Nor do I normally narrate: Squiniting mightily, bilbous says "you must be joking." One good thing about being a Kran is it seems more in character to be impassive.

I do agree that the community sets the norms while the devs and GM try to guide the community to where they want to go, sometimes, I'm sure, it is like herding geese as every now and then one is bound to fly off in the wrong direction.

[Under the moon]

Of course the 'training' villages would be voluntary. Anyone who creates an alt or new character is not going to want to go through the tutorial again, unless they want the rewards. Also, one would not dump all the newbies in one newbie only area. Your choices in CC would dictate where you start (rather than race). Rough example follows:

Mining background- Start point is a working mining camp near a mostly safe public mine. Mining type NPC trainers would be right on hand. Reward for finishing the tutorial before leaving would be basic mining tools, some training, and mining maps.

Soldier- 'Boot camp' in a military complex. Reward fro completing training would be light armor, basic weapons, and future access to official military quests.

Gladiator- Similar to Soldier, but with greater choice in starting weapons, and access to paid fights rather than quests.

General crafters- Start in a bazaar-type area, or individual craft areas. Rewards would be many and varied, depending on what you choose as your background.

Peasant- Start out on 'the farm', a large government owned ranch. Rewards would be knowledge of herbs and plants, minor fighting skills and weapons, plus an easer path to owning your own plot of land.

And so on. Each way would give you a general path to follow, but you could forgo the reward and just leave. Also, each 'camp' would be a working area of the game, so that there would be good reason for developed characters to return there. Player characters could be paid to become teachers, drill masters, and masters (IC advisors) if they themselves went through a more advanced training path in the same area. You can not expect many players to dedicate themselves to teaching new folks the ropes if there is no reward.

In this way, you give new people the knowledge they need in an easier format, and you give older players a greater sense of purpose. LOL and such could be virtually eliminated. (if that be what the Devs or players want)

[Hadfael]

Good idea to provide volontary training areas.
Not only being a lazy typist but also a lazy reader, I did not click the search button to see if it's already in wishes forums.
The idea of being able to decide if you want to go trough a full learning process or ignore the informations you already know or won't use would really be a great improvement. Instead of searching for revelant informations for a specific vocation all over the world talking to every and each NPC, having an easy to find starting point would allow to develop a char according to ones tastes.
But does it apply with RP?
not sure.

As I said it's the community that defines the socialy acceptable behaviours. If more people are really disrupted by "LOL", be sure that GMs will care to /tell people using it to prefer /me laughs. Since I was never annoyed by it (maybe too used to net-chat) I never cared myself for the reasons I explained.
My point was more to show that there is a range between what's acceptable:
 - Selling BS to the best offer
to what's fully OOC, disruptive, annoying:
- WTS BS /x.x

If a rule has to be edicted, it can only be an advice not to over-use abreviations. Unless someone finds a way to define more precisely and without contestation what's fine and what's wrong.
You can't imagine how many people whined when told that "wtf" was vulgar and not allowed.

___________________________
Good to see constructive criticism.|

[zanzibar]

You can't imagine how many people whined when told that "wtf" was vulgar and not allowed.

Not only can I not seem to imagine, I can't seem to care either!

[danveld]

Using shortcuts is .

About powerlevelling and less role playing. I started one topic in past where I (in short) wrote that I really dislike raising off all level caps up. Reason was simple, the more levels in each skill, the more powerlevelling people you get, the less role play. If the game stayed on numbers before, it would be much better, because when powerleveller hits max levels he is done. Nothing to do, game is terrible, farewell. No one supported me there though and topic got closed.

So when we finally hit 300 levels in each skill we will have 95% of powerlevelling people and 5% of role players. Thats how it is, you can think or tell what you want.

Lately Im also amused by the number of people who uses non english languages (I was very lucky with french lately) in main chat and they dont even react on [english only] sentences. Kills any role play at all.

[Bartholin]

Wow, okay.

1st off, When i first played the game, i was just like them, i didnt care for OOC or IC or RP.. i just wanted stats and power, however, through my time in PS i have grown attatched to wanting to be in RP and IC. So im somewhat of an oddity

2nd, About the "n00b village" what is to prevent them from just ignoring it? They ignore the rules all the time, they forgo with the settings, and seldom read the b/g they should. So the village would be pointless, as they would be like "oh, well F*** that, im going to do this"

3rd That lack of inforcement, or ability to inforce it is unimaginable. But a point was brought up, once a powerleveler reaches maxxes, they just get bored and "delete", however, with the introduction of PVP we are brought and left with levelers who now have something to do, who feel compelled to use those stats to kill, to get OOC fame IC'ly.

PS has been around for sometime, however it has lost track of its true goals, which {from what i read} is to promote RP with its setting and to promote fun for its players. I have tried to steer players/leaters/powerleverlers into the right direction, but it is impossable. The only good rp is one that happens far away from any populace that carrys even a slightest OOC threat.

Question, why do we even need stats? We dont need them to RP do we? True that PS gives the choice to level and kill mobs and so on, but its moved from RP to a more WoW game filled with more and more leets, and less and less true rp'ers. More god-modders.. more more more of the wrong people that ruins even the best rps.

[zanzibar]

2nd, About the "n00b village" what is to prevent them from just ignoring it? They ignore the rules all the time, they forgo with the settings, and seldom read the b/g they should. So the village would be pointless, as they would be like "oh, well F*** that, im going to do this"

Some people will never become good roleplayers.  The ones who can learn or want to learn should have a chance.

Question, why do we even need stats? We dont need them to RP do we? True that PS gives the choice to level and kill mobs and so on, but its moved from RP to a more WoW game filled with more and more leets, and less and less true rp'ers. More god-modders.. more more more of the wrong people that ruins even the best rps.

Roleplaying can utilize stats.

[Quin]

Roleplaying can utilize stats.

(I come from a paper and dice background, so take the following as you will)

My opinion is that the RP's should utilize stats.  Not that it is very practical right now (and probably not even soon^tm), but I think people should make the attempt.  Without something concrete to base your actions on, you run into something similar to the old George Carlin bit - Everyone who drives slower than you is a moron and everyone who drives faster than you is a maniac.  Just replace moron and maniac with sucker and godmodder.  Without a standard that everyone plays against, chaos takes hold, feelings get hurt etc. etc.
And since most powerlevelers are too busy powerleveling to get involved, if a random one happens to crash the RP with the sole intent of griefing, ignore him just like you do now (hey, PS is free for everyone, these things happen) but if he's a good RPer, well you've just had a returning war hero join your RP.
The other option, in my opinion, is to hole up in a room at Kada's with that select group you feel safe RPing with and type out your adventures.  Ignoring a huge chunk of the game engine that the Devs are pouring their energy into.

[danveld]

Question, why do we even need stats? We dont need them to RP do we? True that PS gives the choice to level and kill mobs and so on, but its moved from RP to a more WoW game filled with more and more leets, and less and less true rp'ers. More god-modders.. more more more of the wrong people that ruins even the best rps.

Actually I thought about the same. And yes, if I knew such a game I would leave it here and go there.   I can imagine a game with no leveling or some limited version where you wouldn't have to run from town and kill everything on sight. At start you would make similar choices like when creating PS character and you would choose for example talents. That would generate your character (different race statistic + talents + choosed life options) and here you go. Fighting would have to be tricky. You could still learn things like crafting etc. etc. I would rather see more options for players which could "change the world" (houses, castles, player made cities, wars), involved in world policy, tons of role playing than insane levelling to be the best. (hey dude whats your swords? Pfft I have 265 already!)
BTW: this system enforces even a player which dislike it to go and more or less powerlevel up. I cant imagine how my character role play would fit if he was the weakest person around...

Im saying that as person which played 3 MMORPGs at once, thanks GoDs I left at least that moronic WoW :S. So Im not lazy, thats not it.

But thats not going to happen here. So let me just continue whinning about 300 levels cap not being a good idea. (it will be "fun" to go for it I suppose *sighs*)

[bilbous]

From the Octarchal Decree of 435:

VI.Male, female and Kran children shall be made to fight with sticks and throw stones at targets from the earliest ages....
VII. Once an adult, all peoples must seek and provide monies for at least one year of weapons and armor training.

VIII. All citizens must always be prepared to protect themselves and defend their property.

There is some interesting reading in the game, if you choose not to train combat skills you may be liable for whatever punishment the Vigisemi deems appropriate. And how is it to be determined, no other way I can think of than your skill level in at least one weapon and one armor type. You can claim anything you want but it may not wash with the town guard.

[neko kyouran]

bil, seeming as you start playing your character as say a yong adult ish type of age, that training as a child is already done.  So, saying that once you create your charcter you must train, does not hold and water, as that training has already been done.

[bilbous]

I can see how that rationale can apply to Section VI, but think that Section VII might indicate that having a character with 0 weapon and armor skill is not on. The way things work a "years worth" of training will get you 10 levels in both skills without really trying (Once an adult...).

I wasn't really suggesting that there would ever be an in-game penalty for not doing so, though it may seem like I was, I was trying to suggest that those people who claim "I'm a crafter,( a merchant, the town drunk, etc.) I do not need to train or have any combat skills" do not have a leg to stand on as far as the setting goes. It was also to try to give them a little in context excuse to do what they cannot see their character doing. Sure the childhood obligation has passed, there is an adult obligation as well. Section VIII (it is crazy no? hehheh) then goes on to suggest that even if you somehow manage to assume you covered VI and VII in your characters pre-history, remaining with all combat skills at 0 is a burden to society and punishable with unspecified measures. I

 doubt training police will ever be part of the game nor do I think a proficiency test will ever be required for the right to wander the realm. It is not even clear whether the book is a historical document or that the statutes remain in effect. I am just trying to indicate that it is a martial society and everyone is expected to contribute. You can take Switzerland or Israel as a model where every adult is required to be in the militia, unless I am mistaken. Certainly a later Section I did not cite would suggest that in the case of an incursion from the stone labyrinths anyone may be conscripted to aid in the fight. I do not think it says that exactly, that is my interpretation.

[Under the moon]

I read that book some time ago and started laughing. Literally. It seems someone in Settings is trying to make powerleveling (or leveling or any sort) a prerequisite to roleplaying, and put a straw and twigs bridge between the two. I have to wonder what is wrong with RPing the exact stats you start out with.

Sure, it may make sense settings-wise, as the world is wrought with dangers, but game mechanics do not support it in any way.  Let me lay it out simple as to why.

You are -required- to have training.

Training costs are ridiculously high.

All characters are supposed to start out as peasants without a tria to their name. (starting to see where I am going with this?)

Players represent the ‘heroes’ (those that come back to life) in the game, and as such, are not meant to be the general ‘peasant’ and laborer greater mass of the to population. This means most of the NPC populous makes -less- than a player character.

Training is done by giving -no, requiring them to buy weapons, then sending them out to fight wild beasts, which gets a good majority killed on the first day.

NPCs are -not- heroes for the most part, so do not come back to life after being killed.

-Everyone- is required to do this type of training.

-Everyone- is required to play a killer (beast or man, killing is killing)

-Everyone- is subject to the government sanctioned extortion inflicted on the people by greedy trainers.

-Everyone- would be an expert at rock throwing when they started the game. I see no rock throwing skill at all.


Though I could go on for some time more, I will let it rest now. I will only except that law as an archaic and unused relic of another time (as it was written several hundred years ago) when this type of thing was required just to keep the cities safe. Until training is either severely reduced in cost, or even free to some extent, and it does not require citizens to put their lives in jeopardy, I will not except this as a commonly practiced law.

[Draklar]

You are -required- to have training.

Training costs are ridiculously high.

You are supposed to know how to use a sword. Game mechanic wise, you can use a sword even with skills at 0. This can show that even characters without some serious fighting background, had some basic fighting training. Stands well with the setting (where you're expected to train with sticks and stones).

All characters are supposed to start out as peasants without a tria to their name. (starting to see where I am going with this?)

Reminds me of Fyrd and alike stuff. Anyone knows how it came to the situation that English Longbows were simply unmatched? :)

Players represent the ‘heroes’ (those that come back to life) in the game,

You need to read more ingame books. What you're talking about here is a mere myth.

Training is done by giving -no, requiring them to buy weapons, then sending them out to fight wild beasts, which gets a good majority killed on the first day.

1) This was done in England, and to a good effect (again, the Longbow case).
2) No one is sending anyone at anything. It's for self-defense. The Bronze Doors squadrons are meant to be the first line in fighting the wild beasts.

NPCs are -not- heroes for the most part, so do not come back to life after being killed.

Again, nothing more than a myth.

-Everyone- would be an expert at rock throwing when they started the game. I see no rock throwing skill at all.

Ranged
The skill used for any weapon used at a distance.

Also, I don't think kid training with rocks on his own receives a professional training.

[bilbous]

Another thing I would like to mention, except for possibly Kran, eating is killing. Kran are excepted because they can apparently snack on diamonds (vis. the kran  in the plaza snacks on the diamonds you provide him in the course of a quest) and by extension other rocks. Of course no-one is forced to eat by the game mechanics. Pretty near everything you soft skins eat was or is alive.

Is not a gardener who roots out a weed or salts a slug also a killer? Killing is killing....

Low levels of training are reasonable inexpensive, level 10 in one weapon and one armor type would likely fulfill any requirements and can possibly be achieved in character creation.

Unarmed combat, melee or the martial arts would seem to qualify as well otherwise Sinto would likely be forced to use a weapon.

Nothing is wrong with playing the exact stats you start out with, however characters skills will progress if they do anything, even stats would realistically change due to aging, you are talking about some unnatural kind of character stasis. It is just a fact of the game that the training system is as it is, I think it could be better but at least character progression is possible.