Draklar, just one thing ... when players engrave OOC ideas like "Empire = evil" into their character's minds then the influence of PR people like Sangwa, Nurahk and Hwnae here disappears. That is what I noticed to be wrong .. people do not judge the Empire by it's in-game behaviour but by it's OOC reputation, they'll expect evil in every act, even the good ones .. becoming paranoid beyond imagination. Either way it is what it is and I'm going to leave this thread at this point.
Okay, just keep in mind you were asking for it:
IC Reasons
- The History: Throughout many years (or more likely ages) Dark Empire was in fact malicious force led by a Diaboli line all the way until the (cruel) empress Aelya.
- New Leadership: Sangwa is a politician-turned-thief. Not exactly someone people would easily trust.
- The Dishonesty: After the recent auction I "overheard" a private conversation between Donari and one of "PS nobles", in which her excessive greed and charlatanism became all the more obvious. Greedy merchant is a book example of "lawful-evil" alignment.
- Ill Ambitions: This is somewhat private, but as the idea was open to all imperialists, it could easily slip out - Dark Empire wishes its guards to induce fear. Not exactly virtuous behaviour.
- Excessive Violence: Dark Empire proclaims itself to be much like a family. Well, maybe it is, but surely a pathological one. Words of Nurahk to one of aspirants (said in semi-public place): "You raise your voice to a flame again and you'll be stuck in a cage for the rest of eternity." Threat of cutting off tongues followed. From Hwnae you could hear phrases such as "shut your trap", or "Be silent, aspirant! You will obey the order to stay your hand or you will face the consequences of your disobedience." While it may sound semi-harmless, let me just point out while speaking the second, Hwnae blatantly implied using his battle axes would be directly connected with the "consequences". And this leads me to another point.
- The Tyranny: Dark Empire began developing its laws. What one may find interesting is that while the laws clearly defend wealth of the Imperialists, further defending those in power from betrayal; There is absolutely nothing about condemning those in power for oppressing those below them (besides maybe one vague rule, which would easily be sidestepped by any lawful-evil character). I'm checking it for a while now, waiting until change to this shall be found in their library.
- Wicked Behaviour: That one was just way too obvious. Nurahk and another DE member laughing in a tavern about someone's death through plague. While the fact it was rogue they laughed about might be completely okay for them, the not-so-rich part of the society wouldn't feel okay with this (knowing stealing is a necessity, not a hobby). How can someone feel okay in presence of people who treat inhumane death so lightly? Also, it was a plague..? Quite frankly plagues take many lives. Is rogue being one of those deceased enough of a reason to laugh about it?
And that's just my observations. There are people who observed the Dark Empire for a far longer time than I did. I didn't feel all right with pulling out all this on the forums, but as I said: Forcefully implying no one has reason to consider DE as evil, is asking for one to be proven wrong. You're condemning people's characters here.
And before anyone says the above points are completely natural: Too many games. In real life many "merchants" are actually humble and honest people. People don't consider plagues funny and in past uprising was taken against rulers like that as soon as forces assembled. On the other hand, Alfred the Great, anyone? He achieved much for England and still was known as the "protector of the poor". There's no comparison between Alfred's England and DE, really. And still by D&D standards, Alfred the Great would be considered as lawful-
neutral.
Even in Planeshift the neutral people seem much more "good" than the Dark Empire as a whole. Threats and verbal violence most certainly aren't means people of Yliakum use to achieve what they need. Nor do they carry out so much of this shady business.
And I'm not upset with this discussion. I'm upset with how you try to dictate how people should role-play towards DE.
Alright. Let's just put this to rest.
Leadership: Sangwa is one of the few Imperials who are actually trusted, but, that's a decent point. All the same, it's not enough Reason for the recent Empire-hate going around.
Dishonesty: A merchant being greedy... believe it or not we also have fighters who enjoy fighting, spies who like being stealthy and Shadowlords who like being awesome. I'm just saying that a greedy merchant isn't a reason at all. Most any merchant is greedy.
Ill Intentions: Every military force is meant mainly for inducing fear. And if you've found a guard doing something inappropriate, you should inform Hwnae. Out of all the fighters I know, the Imperial Guard happen to be the ones who tolerate their members doing crimes the least.
Excessive violence: Nowhere near an excuse for the recent Empire-hating. This is merely discipline, the same people who say this would have to be blind to ignore how well we take care of our members. I believe Roberet is the one I said that to, if you ask him he'll tell you that I'm quite often helping him when I can.
The Tyranny: You really searched long and hard, didn't you? The Empire trusts those it promotes.
Wicked Behavior: That plague was a poison, Draklar, one meant to be given to me. I usually wouldn't have been quite so wicked but the man didn't seem against poisoning half of my friends (to whom I offered the drink and a warning). If anything, those "good" people opposing the Empire are guilty of wicked behavior.
Though some of these have a basis in truth, and they aren't all completely wrong, nobody with half a brain would do more than take a second look at the Empire. Currently, the only reason people want to attack the Empire is because they are mediocre (at the very best) roleplayers who see "Dark" and "Empire" together. They ignore the fact that there has not been a guild or person slighted by the Empire in god-know-how long. They ignore the fact that the Empire does not break any laws. No member has murdered, stolen, assassinated or framed anybody. The Empire has never blocked people from a public place (bar a misunderstanding with Ecuetas), they've never held anybody against their will. In fact, all the Empire has done is train, listen, learn and trade.
All of this leading me to believe that it's simply OOC jealousy or the need to be a "good" guy and fight the "dark" side which has lead to the recent outbreak of Empire-hate. The people who hate the Empire do so ICly for the dumbest of reasons ("They tried to raise the price of gold", "Roberet tried to defend the Empire but did so poorly", "About two years ago they did something bad, I swear").
Hell, even in dealing with those who seek to
destroy the Empire, only one person has been a target of attack.
If you can find me a half-decent reason for the latest Empire-hate, please bring it forth. And I mean Empire-hate not, oh, they don't seem too good, let's look into them.
It's kind of sad that the roleplay in PS has reached such a low level that had the Dark Empire been called the Light Kingdom we'd probably be hailed as heroes daily.
Now, unless stating a reason, let us leave these drop. Considering it is only lightly related to the topic at hand.
I do believe that what our good friend the topic starter was trying to get at was that the "evil" side of Yliakum seems to be much more organized than the "good". I disagree with "evil" and "good", as you all know, I find it usually does nothing more than create terrible RP ("I's good, I wanna fight da evils") but, I do agree that more organization between allied guilds is a must. As far as I have seen, The Royal House of Purrty is the only guild who actually pays heed to their agreements. They don't just strike an alliance, they look at the terms of the alliance and the needs of the members. (As far as I have seen, in fact, The RHoP is one of the amazingly well RPed guilds out there, possibly the best.) By doing this they add meaning to the alliance and reduce the amount of complication when one side is in need of the other.
I don't think anybody's plan matches the Dark Empire's in organization, though. But, at the moment, there is a lot of confusion. Lines need to be drawn to show people what power they have, rules need to be finalized and alliances need to be made. The PR needs to be worked on tremendously, as it is, with all the organization being done, a lot of people are left without knowing half of the truth, even I find it hard to answer some questions from time to time. And the Forces need to start working together more closely.
All the same, the plan is amazing. The Community of Vaalnor also has a great set up, very similar to the Empire's and done a little bit before, I believe. The Royal House of Purrty is also very well organized though, often overlooked because of how unique it is. And Duraza, though he isn't a guild himself, was very organized.
So, if you must use "evil" and "good", I'd say both sides are about equal in organization, there are just a ton of more "good" people. (DE, RHoP, CoV being "Good", Duraza being "Evil".)[/list]
(I love how I underlined my typo...smooth. Fixed now)
