Hard to train

[Minoe]

I suggest no training/practise points when doing no damage.
That would prevent from training with 0/50 weapons, and it would prevent training low skills on heavy enemies.
Well, i'd lie if i say i never benefit from training skills with "not fighting back" enemies, but it shouldn't be possible to gain some training that easy - don't you think?

[Feline Prince]

But people learn from their mistakes. So there isn't really an IC reason you wouldn't get experience. The system is going to be changed anyway.

[Zan]

I never realized we got training points from missing the enemies, never really paid attention to it either .. if it true then I suggest it changes. Just like with armour training, when you don't block you don't get training. So with weapons, when you don't hit .. you don't get training. When you do hit, even if it  is for no damage .. you should get training though. The lack of damage depends on the weapon, not the skill.

About the NPC's that don't fight back .. that's a problem with the NPC server crashing, not intentional Technically anyone attacking an NPC that can't fight back could be considered an exploiter.

[Josellis]

Ehmm, I see both points of view, but as Feline Prince said, you learn from your mistakes. I play piano for example, I know all the theory, does that mean that if you put a sheet of music affront of me I will play it perfectly? No, I will do mistakes and learn that I should play Forte in bar 3, and Pianissimo in bar 23 there and do a Ritartando during the Pianissimo. I also like trying different ways of playing a piece (Play it with more pedal/staccato, in another key, etc.). I don't see why it should be different with fighting. "I failed to attack the Ulbernault this time so I should aim better/predict how he is going to avoid the attack"

[Zan]

Failure only teaches someone how not to do something. Only success teaches you how to do something.

It's right that we learn something out of our mistakes but we learn so much more out of our successes. Even if those successes are inspired by several failures.

[John80sk]

0/50 weapons should just become unuseable, forcing people to repair them

[Lanarel]

I fence. To me, using a weapon that is so bad that it does not hurt anyone to train my skill, makes perfect sense. Of course I use that weapon on another person training, and not on some poor animal that cannot hurt me

[John80sk]

I think 0/50 means the thing is broken, and is pretty much useless.  The main problem is that I can find a rat, set my character to a bloody stance, leave the room, come back in 15 minutes and have my sword level.  It's not even a matter of realism, in a game the player should have to be there in order to play

[Lanarel]

I have an idea that could solve this. Do the exact opposite as with mining. When you start an attack, remember where the attacker is. When the target is killed, check if the attacker moved and if not display a message "You did not learn anythin, as you did not move while attacking.". Or something.
Or make it so that you do not learn in full defensive mode, which is the default for being automatically attacked. (In cvs at least, not on laanx, I just checked ).
That may even apply for practicing armor. You do not need skill in your armor absorbing a blow. It can do that when putting it on the ground and hitting it. So, requiring that you move and are not full defensive seems OK for that too.

I even implemented the full defensive thing for weapons. It does not show a message (that would require some further checking in class skill). Exactly the same could be done in the same file for armor, but I am not so sure you could not practise in full defensive mode, as the system still makes you dodge and block.

Apply the following patch (to combatmanager.cpp, version 1.152):

526c526,527
<                 if (gemTarget->GetClientID() == 0 && !gemTarget->GetCharacterData()->IsPet())
---
>                 if (gemTarget->GetClientID() == 0 && !gemTarget->GetCharacterData()->IsPet()
>                     && gemAttacker->GetCharacterData()->GetCombatStance() != PSCHARACTER_STANCE_FULL_DEFENSIVE)
528c529
<                     // Successful attack of NPC, train skill.
---
>                     // Successful attack of NPC, and not in full defensive mode, train skill.

[bilbous]

I think 0/50 means the thing is broken, and is pretty much useless.  The main problem is that I can find a rat, set my character to a bloody stance, leave the room, come back in 15 minutes and have my sword level.  It's not even a matter of realism, in a game the player should have to be there in order to play

You better hope a GM doesn't try to talk to you while you are out of the room because you may find you have been kicked or even banned when you come back. That is considered botting, and they do poke at people who seem to be doing repetitive things like that from time to time to make sure they are there. Have you ever been lazily training some place out of the way and some strange person you have never seen comes along (out of nowhere) and does not want to take a turn? That is likely a GM in disguise checking on you. Or maybe that is just paranoia talking....not that I have anything to worry about.

[stfrn]

I have an idea that could solve this. Do the exact opposite as with mining. When you start an attack, remember where the attacker is. When the target is killed, check if the attacker moved and if not display a message "You did not learn anythin, as you did not move while attacking.". Or something.
Or make it so that you do not learn in full defensive mode, which is the default for being automatically attacked. (In cvs at least, not on laanx, I just checked ).

Not a bad Idea, suggest it to venge or X and see what they have to say.
Another possiblty, but tricky to do, is turn off all auto-actions after 1min of inactivity.

[Raleigh]

     I do not agree with this idea, player-made movement only should have influence if the combat was a mix of player and character skill like in MMOFPSes, in fact the game mechanics encourage static combat as you may end out of range if you move too much. I don't see people fighting with broken pieces of blades, so a 0/50 weapon should realistically be unusable, and this will solve the "AFK-powerlevelling" exploit.

[Feline Prince]

Surely there should be a point where the weapon becomes beyond repair? Maybe have it so at 0 a messaged pops up warning you if you continue to use your weapon it will fall apart. Then in 5 or so hits time the weapon is good for nothing but melting.

[bilbous]

It would seem to the the flip side of that would that you could keep your weapon from degrading by polishing every nick and never letting it get below 49/50. I doubt that is the case though. If it were the case that the better at repair you were the further from 50 you could repair without penalty. Surely a repair that takes 20 seconds cannot be major. Getting off topic here a bit.

[Lanarel]

@Ralleigh: I had two ideas. The first was with movement, the second disabling sword practice when in full defensive mode (the default attack, when attacked).

@Feline Prince: DUe to some bug, the minimum is clipped to 1/.. But that would not change your idea

@Bilbous: No matter what the quality is, when you repair, the maximum will slowly decrease. Since only integers are shown, this is not directly visible. Repairing a 49/50 weapon several times, will make it 49/49, then 48/48 etc. It does not matter anymore (as it did once) if you repair regularly, or in one go.