read this for secret meetings

[bilbous]

Hmm. Looks like we have chased away another newcomer. Congratulations folks.

[Donari Tyndale]

He'll return, no worries.

http://hydlaa.com/smf/index.php?topic=28439.msg327108#msg327108

[Kylan Sheehan]

Ah yes, they always do.

[Draklar]

     Many look foolishly to extend the 4X desires in a MMO environment potentially intended to make all as powerless chit-chatters and have 100% of control over it by its own creators.

Some people seem paranoid to give players more power to affect the world. Afraid of how people will use it?

Who is the one who wants to control everything surrounding him more I wonder. The one wanting to be able to change some things or the one not trusting others with that mundane power.

Devs want to control the game they're creating. Congrats, mystery solved.
You have just received 200 experience points, 50 Tria and 5 faction points for Conspiracy Nut.

[Xordan]

Hmm. Looks like we have chased away another newcomer. Congratulations folks.

'Feels like the good ol' days again.

[Raleigh]

Hmm. Looks like we have chased away another newcomer. Congratulations folks.

'Feels like the good ol' days again.

Likely to exist a cabal of people conspiring to scare away noobs from PlaneShift and to ressurrect the l33t Vampire Hunterlords under the leadership of the ub3r-w3rri0r globokilla and his r0x character RobocopGloboCop 

     Many look foolishly to extend the 4X desires in a MMO environment potentially intended to make all as powerless chit-chatters and have 100% of control over it by its own creators.

Some people seem paranoid to give players more power to affect the world. Afraid of how people will use it?

Who is the one who wants to control everything surrounding him more I wonder. The one wanting to be able to change some things or the one not trusting others with that mundane power.

Devs want to control the game they're creating. Congrats, mystery solved.
You have just received 200 experience points, 50 Tria and 5 faction points for Conspiracy Nut.

      Yes, and Atomic Blue is a shell organization for the Illuminati 

      Nah, depends on the kind of control. A control to don't permit people to make characters walking with cell phones in their descriptions or sponsoring racial wars is one thing, a control to block the future masonry skill to all but GMs instead of opening them to the appropriate areas for construction for all players is another(this last example won't happen of course, or there wouldn't be any sense at all on having planned a masonry skill). But a MMORPG should be open to good influences of players on its world.

P.S.: Wait? "Polotics" and "porody"? I think I know who might be behind this joke... 

[Xordan]

Hmm. Looks like we have chased away another newcomer. Congratulations folks.

'Feels like the good ol' days again.

Likely to exist a cabal of people conspiring to scare away noobs from PlaneShift and to ressurrect the l33t Vampire Hunterlords under the leadership of the ub3r-w3rri0r globokilla and his r0x character RobocopGloboCop 

It was all the 'good' oldbie guilds who did all the newbie flame ripping every time a new guild/org popped up ;P

[Draklar]

But a MMORPG should be open to good influences of players on its world.

We seem to have differences on a linguistic level. I for one don't see "to control" and "to influence" as close synonyms.

[Garile]

We seem to have differences on a linguistic level. I for one don't see "to control" and "to influence" as close synonyms.

That shows you haven't been reading the previous posts in this thread to carefully then as players influencing the world or the lack there of was the whole point

[Draklar]

We seem to have differences on a linguistic level. I for one don't see "to control" and "to influence" as close synonyms.

That shows you haven't been reading the previous posts in this thread to carefully then as players influencing the world or the lack there of was the whole point :P

those who love politics meet me globocop in the tavern to decide the fate of the city

-- opening post

Expand means the player adds more territory under their control.

-- from Raleigh's link.

I haven't been reading?

[Garile]

Nah, depends on the kind of control

No you haven't. It's nitpicking at best.

[Draklar]

So I am both nitpicking and not reading carefully at the same time? I admit, I am a man full of paradoxes.

If you can explain to me how the opening post (as well as "eXplore, eXpand, eXploit, eXterminate") implies mere influence (and not control at all), feel free to do so.

Two things:
1) If you're not talking about controlling, you're way off topic in this thread.
2) Even if players won't be allowed to control the world, this doesn't rule out possibility of influence. Which makes your criticizm unjustified.

P.S. The "control" from the post you quoted refers to devs, not players. But oh, I am nitpicking again.

[Cyl]

... I am a man full of paradoxes.

I agree.

On a more serious note: Player-side influence is a ambiguous matter. On the one hand there are bright individuals whose contribution would bring a great benefit for both the community and the project. On the other hand, however, there is a major group who just lack the insight and focus to add in worthwhile contributions, and in the worst case harm the community or the project with their actions. I bet I don't have to talk about individuals who knowingly and voluntarily disrupt the gaming experience of those around them. The more influence or control players are granted, the more likely incidents will happen in which this influence and control are misused, or used in a way that is harmful to the community or the project.

"Just implementing some system that gives the players more control" isn't only a difficile matter in terms of coding or setting, it's always a tightrope walk between granting the players enough influence to be able to bring worthwhile contributions and giving them the power to disrupt the gameplay.

[Draklar]

I fully agree with the post above.

However, I think it would be reasonable to allow some sort of influence through "controlled" GM events, where different characters could end an epic adventure in different ways.

That's how RPG should be anyway. Role-playing games aren't really about being a mighty politician deciding about the fate of the world. You have Civilization-styled games for that.

[Raleigh]

But the thirst for glory and knowledge has no boundaries. Beyond Yliakum, concealed by the Bronze Doors, the Stone Labyrinths, the unknown Kadaikos, homeland of Lemurs, and the legendary Pradesha - ruled by the enlightened Ahrijani - wait to be discovered. And much more...

       First, thing, when I mentioned the good influences of players, I meant control in a more local level rather than absolute. Large private properties for example. And of course, cities beyond the borders of Yliakum and of the civilized world. Or will never be supported the aspirations of guilds like mine and The Survivors of Vaern through implementation of masonry among other skills? I don't think so.

       The quoted text from the Settings page suggests something entirely different as well. As I already said, I'm against a unrealistically static world, and most of the MMO"RP"Gs are like that, but this doesn't solve the "1337" syndrome either in them and there are hundreds of griefers over there. It is clearly suggested that there will be vast "no man's lands" for those crazy and daring enough to attempt to control. Influence of Yliakum through GM Events? Perhaps, but an in-game system might to the trick as well. Control of vast uncivilized territories by the devs, blocking any attempts of expansion there in the future? Definitively not. However, it is already possible to deal with griefers, and any feature that allows power, even the possibility of duelling in a full PvP area, gives space for griefers. So it's a question of whether taking down everything to prevent griefing or adding new interesting features knowing that griefers will be dealt with later anyway.

That's how RPG should be anyway. Role-playing games aren't really about being a mighty politician deciding about the fate of the world. You have Civilization-styled games for that.

       I would give my kingdom for a MMO 4X game ;P

       But you should be able to become a small landowner deciding the fate of your property, a businessman trying to make some profit, a small stone labyrinth outpost leader trying to struggle for the survival over its harsh conditions and so on. Control on a more local level always brings interesting perspectives. Control of the devs should be reactive rather than limiting possibilities for the nice players because of the bad ones, to take down griefers exploiting the systems then, and of course, nothing a /report from a player wouldn't fix as well.