Fighting on Plaza ALWAYS OOC???

[Valorius Rageway]

I think the point of that was to tell you that 15 seconds in RL could be 10 minutes in Ylikuam. What you call a short time in RL really would be a very long time giving guards plenty to catch up.

Well that is the exact opposite of reality. In busy city streets and winding back alleys(what youre saying should be simulated), the fleet of foot escaping killer would have a huge edge over the platemail encumbered guard who was probably standing in the sun all day, bored, and who would really rather be taking a nap. And, oh, by the way.....Elite warriors are very expensive, and are rarely used as guards. Typically the youngest, most inexperienced soldiers in a garrison are. And what's more, guard duty is deathly boring, and guards tend to stop caring about the daily details of their duties, and tend to get distracted by the pretty young girls, or magazines, or anything they can think of to break up the boredom of that oldest of soldier's banes.

One poster said, "They'd just hire more guards until there would be no more killings." Hmmm, a simple sounding solution, but it overlooks the fact that trained professional troops (let alone wizards) do not grow on trees, nor are they free, and that almost no place on earth(using reality as our guild) is there a 0% murder rate. Surely if it was easy as 'just hiring more guards' there would be no inner city street crime anywhere in the 1st world. Yet...

Finally, if these troops were the cream of the crop, they'd be at BD guarding that far more important strategic location. I imagine that'd be doubly so for any mages employed by the Gov't.

So, there are a few more daggers of reality into the heart of the assertion that the hydlaa guards are some inviolable force that could easily deal with any threat.

I can't say that your way of Rping is any better than mine. After all who are we the players to say what is in the game and what isn't? What's implemented is the safest way to go about rping. However I still feel when you RP you should look at the game as a whole and not an unfinished product because the fact that it is unfinished is OOC.

Im not saying my style of play is in anyway superior- just that it's valid. Further, no world is ever in a 'finished state'. It is very easy for me to say blasters dont exist, cause they dont. At such a time as they're invented(implemented), then they exist. I simply choose to view PS as a living, growing world, where the flurry of rennaissance and invention is firmly in place. Things like bows, and riding beasts, and more spells are being devised by the learned of the realm every day.

That's how i look at it. Ylaikum is alive and growing.

PS: As for you being at a disadvantage in fights because you train only mage stats/skills- i will tell you that mages (especially massed mages) totally dominated the war that spurred this thread.

[Raleigh]

Now that this discussion was opened to other veins...

People shouldn't be afraid of their government, the government should be afraid of their people

      So in other words, any government will exist only as long as the people tolerate or support it, if the majority is convinced that they are corrupt and evil(even if this isn't true), then things will start heating up, but convincing a majority, in secret, isn't trivial(Both French and Russian revolutions had massive popular support, or they would've probably failed). Otherwise the only way to successfully overthrow a government is with the support of a foreign nation(or by this nation itself). Also,making a network of secret societies could be another step to it as shown here. An interesting prospect, no matter the final result. Though I advise anybody to wait for certain features to be implemented instead of going to fight with something that gameplay-wise doesn't exist. "Roleplaying" a government that doesn't exist in game is next to impossible.

http://youtube.com/watch?v=GPfI9oxZuEo 

P.S.: In the Soviet Black Sun Union, the Revolution starts YOU!!

[Duraza]

I can't say that your way of Rping is any better than mine. After all who are we the players to say what is in the game and what isn't? What's implemented is the safest way to go about rping. However I still feel when you RP you should look at the game as a whole and not an unfinished product because the fact that it is unfinished is OOC.

Im not saying my style of play is in anyway superior- just that it's valid. Further, no world is ever in a 'finished state'. It is very easy for me to say blasters dont exist, cause they dont. At such a time as they're invented(implemented), then they exist. I simply choose to view PS as a living, growing world, where the flurry of rennaissance and invention is firmly in place. Things like bows, and riding beasts, and more spells are being devised by the learned of the realm every day.

That's how i look at it. Ylaikum is alive and growing.

I can understand that. Your view is that when it was implemented it was newly discovered. My warning is not to always think like that. For example we've had weapons far before we were able to craft. Even though it wasn't implemented you'd have to have assumed that crafting existed. You could say its something that has not yet been taught to the public but you have to know that it did exist. My other piece of advice is not to always shun something just because its not implemented. As you said Ylikuam is growing so who knows, some player might start using arrows. In that way they would have "invented" arrows. Its just not used yet because its a new invention. Then when bow and arrows is placed ingame that person technically was just one of the first to propose the idea.

[bilbous]

This whole argument is getting a little silly. Both sides arguments are full of holes. V says "only role-play what is" well every citizen is subject to being called up into the militia and if the government thinks you are enough of a problem it would not take very long to sweep the sewers/dungeon and certainly someone will notice where the fleeing miscreant trailing blood went. As for RPing what you know will exist regardless of its implementation ... well ... That isn't Harnquist I am standing next to, it is the smith on the bottom level of the realm, I made my getaway clean. The fact you see me in Hydlaa is just because the other levels are not available.

Once they finish the character wipe for .19 we will all be nice and equal again. 

Since this discussion has wandered off into the nether regions here is some infernal torture from the river Styx

Just kidding, please don't hurt me.

[Raleigh]

Now I really don't regret my decision of abandoning completelly the level treadmill and mining gold treadmill to focuse exclusively on roleplay. And I wonder if @bilbous posted that as a way to push a lock on this thread. So I'm going against it... by trying to push it back on topic.

I'm sure some drunk people will fight in the Plaza sometimes, but nothing with an outcome as death, that would require either RP-fight or a new game combat mechanics that allows non-lethal takedowns.

*edit*

      I think that if Harnquist is enoughly drunk, even he might engage in a brawl with somebody in the plaza, specially if he isn't too patient and can't hold insults(something yet to be known). Guards would probably be alert(or not, who knows? Perhaps in the time the brawl happens they are patrolling elsewhere) and take action if the confusion becomes too big.

[socia]

*sigh*

This game isn't about PvPers vs RPers > its mmoRPg < there are no PvPers. PvP as you have itis only part of game doing extension to RP as you could have RP duel but if both sides want they can have duel by gamemechanics.

To fight on plaza, it does not matter if you run away or how many guards are around, first you have to have some story for that fight and it can take only a short while. When you want to fight in way you did, please do it off public as it is more annoying than interesting, thanks.

[Feline Prince]

For the "PvPers", a couple of FPS' for you to show off your 1337 5K1LLZ

http://www.warrock.net/ and http://www.americasarmy.com/

Both free.

As socia said, PvP is just something to AID RP not a different activity.

[drah]

FP.. some people make an assumption that others are after an FPS whereas they enjoy both the RP and PvP elements of the game, that's not really fair, is it?

But this mischaracterise the argument here... which actually... is about realism and staying in-character regarding fights and imparticular, war that passes through the Plaza.


Socia... just to clarify about the war you had witnessed...

- The issues behind the war were IC.
- RP events were the catalyst.
- Some characters (not players) already had grudges between them already, which were also the result of roleplay.
- The DR fighting sucked and shouldn't be repeated.


The Plaza fighting is quetionable but we have no realistic idea of the threshold (the number of combattants at which the guards would rather sit back and let the warring factions kill each other before trying to tackle the trouble.) and that in itself will continue to cause different people to have different perceptions... and ultimately argue OOC about it... really, I just wanted to find out what people thought was reasonable and whether there were any solid indications as to what, if anything, we should imagine into the game... instead of what we actually have to go off, which is, to quote...  "a rumour" about the occupation of the guard-tower.

I just wanted to find what where realistic limits to this would be and what to really expect from the guards.

As usual though... it's devolved into someone trying to make out that people who enjoy both RP and PvP are simply FPS fanatics... and sadly... that pushes things away from being a productive or constructive discussion.

Please stop bashing each other and stick to the facts. (and that's aimed at nobody imparticular, just in-general)

[Feline Prince]

FP.. some people make an assumption that others are after an FPS whereas they enjoy both the RP and PvP elements of the game, that's not really fair, is it?

But this mischaracterise the argument here... which actually... is about realism and staying in-character regarding fights and imparticular, war that passes through the Plaza.

I was going on the impression others in the discussion had given me. Everyone is different and I feel that some better suited to a multiplayer FPS are ruining the ambience of the game for others and it is part of the issue we are debating. I'm all for less civilised characters having to use the PvP to aid their roleplay, as is DOES make the game more interesting. However I cannot sympathise with people who play the game to have PvP and the means to achieving it as the main activity.

Obviously we don't actually know the answer to the question you have and its something for the Devs to answer, and hopefully see fit to actually implement something into the game that portrays that fact.

I may be dancing the flame line here but I'd already stuck my foot in it really 

[Kaerli]

FP.. some people make an assumption that others are after an FPS whereas they enjoy both the RP and PvP elements of the game, that's not really fair, is it?

But this mischaracterise the argument here... which actually... is about realism and staying in-character regarding fights and imparticular, war that passes through the Plaza.


Socia... just to clarify about the war you had witnessed...

- The issues behind the war were IC.
- RP events were the catalyst.
- Some characters (not players) already had grudges between them already, which were also the result of roleplay.
- The DR fighting sucked and shouldn't be repeated.


The Plaza fighting is quetionable but we have no realistic idea of the threshold (the number of combattants at which the guards would rather sit back and let the warring factions kill each other before trying to tackle the trouble.) and that in itself will continue to cause different people to have different perceptions... and ultimately argue OOC about it... really, I just wanted to find out what people thought was reasonable and whether there were any solid indications as to what, if anything, we should imagine into the game... instead of what we actually have to go off, which is, to quote...  "a rumour" about the occupation of the guard-tower.

I just wanted to find what where realistic limits to this would be and what to really expect from the guards.

As usual though... it's devolved into someone trying to make out that people who enjoy both RP and PvP are simply FPS fanatics... and sadly... that pushes things away from being a productive or constructive discussion.

Please stop bashing each other and stick to the facts. (and that's aimed at nobody imparticular, just in-general)

TYVM for putting a stop to the mess with Valorius, Drah.

P.S. do you think you could post some of the backstory stuff from this war up?  It'd really help alleviate the confusion about this guild war being IC vs. OOC.

[drah]

@Kaerli... I'll ask those who were directly involved to do that.

As I wanted to try to keep this thread in more of a hypothetical mode... they might just post something briefly to the roleplaying thread to explain what had happened just prior to things kicking off.

Valorius indepently asked her guild to avoid fighting on the plaza too, we both had reached the conclusion that we didn't want any more trouble from the GMs or from other players pretty much at the same time.
@FP .. I don't think you flamed there at all and I understand your point that if people are looking primarily for PvP then PS isn't for them... I agree.

[Peacer]

ooc reason: there's a lot of pressure on the plaza already

[Stylee-FB]

Hello,

I am not a long time PS player and I am not really a good RP-er, but however this don't mean that I can't understand what RP is and I want also share my opinion, since I have this opportunity. Actually I didn't read all posts from this topic, but from some of them I red I saw some good points and some totally senseless .

First  of all I don't understand why all this wasting of words around realism. This is a game, and more specifically a game with fantasy setting, so the realism of it can be totally different from the realism we are all familiar with. And usually in role playing games (like D&D) the realism is defined by game masters, if you don't like the way of leading the game, you leave the group and find another one that is more adequate for you. Arguing decisions of game masters, show only a immaturity of the person in consideration. Of course I think everyone should be able to give a suggestion to improve the game, but this can be done in polite and calm way. Personally I had only good experiences in communication with game masters and developers.

Now back to the main topic. Fighting in plaza, as some said, can be also considered IC if you play a criminal or fool character that provoke people in a guarded city and get the IC response of self-defense or defense of honour from the challenged character. But still in the case this fool or criminal kill the honest citizen (even if he/she think that has right), would be an expected IC reaction to run away and no stand there and showing of. Of course a fool have no sense and at this point can be also the discussion open. So I think if someone want play a criminal, can kill in plaza and run away, if someone want play a fool, can kill and stay there, but don't be surprised if that character is considered as such after it. A big step forward for PS would be, if when a fight start or it seems to starting, a guard would come and show the authority. Also a option of banning from city would be appreciated.

About guild wars in general, I also agree with the fact, that if the war have no background, it is OOC. So as kaerli said, if Drah give us some more details of this it would help to understand if it was OOC or IC.

Also I found a good point from Nicana. If plaza has a rule not to fight on it, guards should be first who should give a good example. So organizing a fight was  not really a smart decision.

As conclusion I want to say, that PS team do alot of voluntary work for our pleasure, so folowing few their requests would be the minimum we can give them back.

Stylee

[socia]

*socia's tail nervously taps on chair while she waits for the story....*

[drah]

There were already existing tensions because of an ongoing grudge between guild-#1 leader and a senior member of  guild-#2.

At an auction not long before the war there was some confusion on behalf of a senior member (not the one with the grudge initially) of guild-#2, a member from guild-#1 developed an attitude and started being extremely rude to the guild-#2 member.  guild-#2 member responded that there was no need for that kind of attitude or rudeness, guild-#1 member became even more aggressive, guild-#2 member became aggressive...

Guild-#1 member felt guild-#2 member was an idiot... guild-#2 member felt he'd been greatly dishonored because of the insults... and so they agreed to meet for a fight.

Guild-#2 member turned up at the agreed place only to find that the entire Guild-#1 had turned up... seemingly neither side trusted the other to turn up alone as some of Guild-#2 had come along too.

After guild-#1's member was disposed of... guild-#1's leader confronted guild-#2's member... and with the existing tensions... the arguments soon escalated from individual-vs-individual into guild-vs.-guild.

War was declared, guild-#2 received intel that guild-#1 was calling on their former guild for assistance and so guild-#2 called upon their allies.

Then... there were 2 guilds at war with another 2 guilds.

I can't post logs as the person directly involved in the initial argument had lost the logs when they uninstalled .018... but at least you know the story now... and yes, I've kept it vague on purpose as my intent for this thread was more for posing a hypothetical question.

If you want more details I'd suggest you go and ask those who were involved, in-character.