Author Topic: Anyone know of any alternatives to planeshift?  (Read 11069 times)

Psignosis

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Anyone know of any alternatives to planeshift?
« on: July 09, 2007, 06:09:04 pm »
I've been an on and off player of Planeshift for ages. I remember eight people sitting around a single rat, and taking turns to earn experience. It was really funny actually.

I'm not speaking for everyone else's opinions but gamewise, the moment you start getting into the game you come across functionality that hasn't been programmed or designed. It kind of dampens your interest to a point. To make up for this, the game masters propose the concept of role play which is paramount to story telling. That is, sitting around and spouting make believe stories  and running around on made up quests etc. Um, and whilst I find this nice, looking back... the thought of role playing for the two years I've been involved in the project just makes me think, do I not have something better to do with my life? I hope so. That side of things really doesn't interest me all that much. I imagine there are those who do enjoy doing that!? Each to their own I guess.

The other aspect I find interesting about Planeshift (which I think some people have mentioned before) is the idea of watching the code grow. I've been a Linux GNOME follower for ages and find it fascinating watching the stages, reading the developers comments and learning about how everything comes together (good and bad). Just watching the GNOME project over the years has taught me so much about how a graphical desktop works, the bits which make it up etc. It also serves to be good media coverage for people being involved. It keeps people onside and focused on your game. In part, this is one of the reasons why I tend to occasionally come back to the planeshift project. I like watching the growth of Crystal Space, observing the Google Summer of Code projects, watching the new feature enhancements to the Gaming Engine and seeing how Planeshift has put this to use. I am aware that Planeshift has a rather large contribution to Crystal Space and as such, is quite an important project to this regard. I think it would seem a valid point to say that Crystal Space could potentially change the gaming scene for Linux in a very big way. ( Yeah, I'm a Linux nerd ). Planeshift is quite a unique project given that it is the first reasonable game to take advantage of this technology and grow this into the future. I find the relationship between the two software entities to be a really big deal for Linux. It really surprises me, that in order to encourage and assist other gaming projects to follow the same path, that this project is so hush hush and secret. I would think that there would be a greater motivation to be vocal about design decisions in the off chance, that other projects may adopt similiar design models. Sure!? Planeshift might suffer a little bit by people/players losing out on some mysterious interests (there are ways around that) but the greater picture would see growth for more game/crystal space developers. This project seems to be open source without really being open.

The problem is that things don't usually happen in a hurry with this project. Understandingly, game programmers / good artists etc are probably a harder skillset to find than ordinary database programmers but also, have to admit, the selection process does seem quite daunting if anyone did want to get involved? Development Tools? Development section and roadmap on the website? Above all this, we're not allowed to get involved in blogs or read about upcoming roadmaps, futures or whatever to the game (Talads rules to which I partially see the reasoning!?). If the development model is based on peoples contributions, then I'd really like to know how somebody's contribution gets turned into reality? Its not explicit when still, it comes down to a handful of people who make the final decision anyway. That has me totally confused. In fact, most of the interesting stuff which I love to read about is forbidden and kept as developers secrets. Yeah, thats to keep people in anticipation I guess, yada yada. So in effect, the decision process for everything is held in the hands of a few people who are really the only ones who know whats going on, who also are the only ones who make all the decisions. I dunno, I'm not an artist, but when I design a piece of software - I tend to see it as a form of art to some regard. I always see code as being open to alternative ways of doing things but anyway. The existing model does take away a lot of enjoyment and education preventing people from watching the project grow whilst making the project slightly closed off and biased to a democractic decision process. All it really allows is for people to log in and play occasionally, then log back on every month to see if a) the features have been implemented or, b) something new has happened in game or on the planeshift web site. Given Planeshift has an opportunity to be the first and highly remembered original Crystal Space Project (which I have no doubt that Crystal Space is going places), all it would take is for another project to come along, with community backing and an open model, and Planeshift would just fall into the background. I personally think its losing a valuable opportunity by containing everything for the sake of a little mystery.

Anyway, just thought I'd throw my two cents worth into the project.

Now, I don't want to be unsociable, but does anyone know of any other fairly good Crystal Space projects taking off? Or is Planeshift still really the only reasonable one at this time?
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Suvok

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Raleigh

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Re: Anyone know of any alternatives to planeshift?
« Reply #2 on: July 09, 2007, 07:36:48 pm »
A more clear and easy to see disclaimer that Planeshift isn't Open-source in the front page of the site isn't a bad idea.

Karyuu

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Re: Anyone know of any alternatives to planeshift?
« Reply #3 on: July 09, 2007, 07:46:20 pm »
PlaneShift's code is fully open-source. PlaneShift's art is not. It's that simple.
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Nikodemus

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Re: Anyone know of any alternatives to planeshift?
« Reply #4 on: July 09, 2007, 08:29:24 pm »
Maybe something new in this topic.
I'm actually interested in all the questions the author made, can we have these answered?



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Raleigh

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Re: Anyone know of any alternatives to planeshift?
« Reply #5 on: July 09, 2007, 08:39:20 pm »
      I know of one I would like to recommend, though they are currently moving from CrystalSpace to OGRE, and if you has a not so eccletic preference and dislikes sci-fi, I think you might not like it, but here is a shot I give. It is a "freelancer-esque" game, inspired on the classic Elite. It's a space sim named VegaStrike:

http://vegastrike.sourceforge.net

P.S.: In their new site they put the updates to SVN right in the front page!   :D
So if you're looking for a project with a very open to the public development, it isn't a bad option, although it'll use other engine.
« Last Edit: July 09, 2007, 08:43:11 pm by Raleigh »

Earl_Listbard

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Re: Anyone know of any alternatives to planeshift?
« Reply #6 on: July 09, 2007, 08:53:02 pm »
vega strike!

 \\o//

Good game, fun for when PS is down.

Psignosis

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Re: Anyone know of any alternatives to planeshift?
« Reply #7 on: July 10, 2007, 06:44:35 am »
Actually vegastrike looks really cool, do admit, I have come across it but didn't get the chance to actually toy with it properly.

I do remember elite and frontier from the old Amiga days. *aah the good old days* ha ha. Yeah, they where cool games.

Actually, on the subject of RPGs, Anyone remember ' Fate Gates of Dawn? '.

One of the games I really thought was awesome on the old Amiga was Carrier Command. Funnily enough, if anyones interested then I came across this:

http://homepage.ntlworld.com/martingbell/projects/

Its not playable yet but there's a video on the main page. I could only wish. The graphics look so much better in this version.

Its really cool to see other games starting to appear.
This is a politically correct sig that offends nobody. In the event of offense, I deny everything. Thats right, it wasnt me. In the event of a Civil Lawsuite proclaiming Liability, I bring to witness a cat who walked over my keyboard, typing words in this exact order. If asked, the cat denies all.

Ice_Stovo

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Re: Anyone know of any alternatives to planeshift?
« Reply #8 on: July 11, 2007, 05:25:51 pm »
There actually is not graphical alt for PS. All other 3D games are wortheless mobkilling game with charakter named like " \../ satanic_babe 666". Planeshift is the only one interesting and unique one
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Suvok

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Re: Anyone know of any alternatives to planeshift?
« Reply #9 on: July 11, 2007, 07:49:42 pm »
PS is the most unique and enjoyable game by far, in my opinion.

Yet sometimes, you need a fast paced FPS to keep your trigger finger fit.

I searched around on the Interweb for some games a while ago actually to satisify my thirst to download free junk. This game caught my eye. It's called Nexuiz, it's a Multiplayer FPS using the Quake Engine. If you're like me, you don't play these games addictively, you play it when you need an adrenaline rush.

Vegastrike will be great...when they have incorperated the MMO part of it.

Above all this, we're not allowed to get involved in blogs or read about upcoming roadmaps, futures or whatever to the game (Talads rules to which I partially see the reasoning!?). If the development model is based on peoples contributions, then I'd really like to know how somebody's contribution gets turned into reality?

I agree that we could be more informed. But I also see the point in nice surprises when a new feature appears. I don't think we would have enjoyed the Winch as much if we had heard about it several months beforehand. There is a place where news is posted more regulary, but you'll notice that the last post was as the server was closed for testing for the "upcoming" release of 0.19. (EDIT: Wow! Just noticed it's out!)

« Last Edit: July 11, 2007, 08:52:47 pm by Suvok »
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Rabalder

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Re: Anyone know of any alternatives to planeshift?
« Reply #10 on: July 11, 2007, 08:15:53 pm »
I used to be addicted to EVE Online some years ago. That's a MASSIVE and impressing MMORPG.
When PS were updating the server, without telling us anything, I decided to try out the free version of Anarchy Online.
But I must honestly say I was greatly disappointed with the Graphics.  .. I find it hard to understand that it's the great MMORPG everybody's talking about.
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Vengeance

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Re: Anyone know of any alternatives to planeshift?
« Reply #11 on: July 12, 2007, 12:12:06 am »
Everyone seems so mystified by our development process but it doesn't seem that mysterious to me...

- We commit our code to SourceForge multiple times a day.
- SourceForge is the most obvious and most popular place to look for such code.
- All the code is available for download anytime, or just browsing on the web.
- Anyone can subscribe to the cvs mailing list for the project and see the commits, comments and diffs in real-time.

- Most of the devs are online on irc whenever they are working on the project.
- We have #planeshift-prospects and #planeshift-build channels dedicated to helping people build and contribute to the project.

- We have audio podcasts of developers explaining things and giving introduction to systems and team prospects.

Yes we are cagey about concept art, because we like to surprise people with new chickens and new monsters, and we don't like to talk about future features and dates because then people's expectations get too high.  Other than that it seems to me we are a very accessible and helpful team.

What am I missing here?

steuben

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Re: Anyone know of any alternatives to planeshift?
« Reply #12 on: July 12, 2007, 12:46:35 am »
Quote
What am I missing here?
experience on the front lines...

you forget that people want it cheap, fast, and good. not realizing that they have to pick two. unless they work in the civil service and then they have to pick one.
may laanx frighten the shadow from my path.
hardly because the shadow built the lexx.
the shadow will frighten laanx from my path.

Psignosis

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Re: Anyone know of any alternatives to planeshift?
« Reply #13 on: July 15, 2007, 08:40:39 am »
I've already had my opinions on this matter and those posts have been deleted so I don't see any reason for going over it again. They will only get deleted again.

I asked the question, ' Why does the Planeshift Team have a hard time keeping developers? ' and I must of struck a cord because my post was deleted instantly.

Furthermore, I asked the question, ' Why was a certain other persons post locked and not replied to in the interests of Freedom of Speech? ' and that post was also deleted. He was not offensive, he was not attacking anybody personally, he was merely supplying facts of the project. If they where all false, then there would have been nothing to be afraid of and it would of been easy to supply the truthe. I can only suggest there was some truthe in his allegations and thats why he was silenced and his post was locked.

I think there's a clear message here folks.

The way this project is managed deters quite a lot of developers (hence reason why nobody has joined in so many years), is purely managed in gestapo style by the gods that be, and if you post anything in these forums (in the interest of contributing to the project) then its really pointless because those who manage the project do what they want, instead of listening to the people. If you state anything to this effect or ask questions which get too close to seeing the real problems, you'll be silenced.

This project does not have a community mindset, is not open and doesn't really desire the support and contributions from the public. This project is far from being openly developed. In fact, I find how its managed and the way it treats its contributors to be quite immoral and unethical to say the least. It advertises a totally different message on its web site than what is relayed from the actual structure of the team. A disgrace to the open source community. Its lies lies and damned lies. Im comforted in knowing that quite a lot of projects have started and there will soon be competition. The unethical management of this project and failure for it to aquire developers is most likely going to stunt its growth. It will come back to bite in the end.

I'm not suggesting anybody take my word for it... in fact, I'm suggesting people do their own research instead. I'm sure you'll come to the same conclusions.

Anyway, I've lost a lot of interest in this project. I found the answers I was looking for.
This is a politically correct sig that offends nobody. In the event of offense, I deny everything. Thats right, it wasnt me. In the event of a Civil Lawsuite proclaiming Liability, I bring to witness a cat who walked over my keyboard, typing words in this exact order. If asked, the cat denies all.

Karyuu

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Re: Anyone know of any alternatives to planeshift?
« Reply #14 on: July 15, 2007, 08:43:33 am »
Psignosis, your last thread has been moved to the Complaint section, not deleted. If you're ever in doubt or if you cannot find one of your posts where it has been previously, check your post history.

And please, do your "research" before you write more posts like this. It's a shame to see you believe something that false, that seriously.
Judge: Are you trying to show contempt for this court, Mr Smith?
Smith: No, My Lord. I am attempting to conceal it.