Why is this project unable to recruit and why don't developers stay?

[Psignosis]

> The rest of PlaneShift development history is a winding down path of failure, filled with slow updates, numerous bugs, unprofessionally
> designed content (quests, levels etc), with quite a few developers, contributors and community figures leaving the project. The proof is
> in the game credits, forum history and the game (or shall I say "Beta") itself.

One of the most important things about having an open source project, is managing the people properly and giving everybody a fair go.

The fact that this guys post was locked down and stopped is another indication of retracting freedom of speech. Thats not very open in my view. He wasn't being offensive, he wasn't swearing or attacking anybody personally. He was shut down mostly because of political and indifference point of view. That is indication of, its open in so far as I like what you post open. It comes down to what I was saying in my previous post about the Decision making process being in the hands of a few.

I am really no longer sure why these forums have been setup. In my opinion, they where setup for constructive discussion which potentially could point to areas where Planeshift could be improved? Ideas, Suggestions etc? Weren't they not? THAT, or they're just an area to shut people up and give them something to do which gets them off everyones back. I don't really know. Though, I do question any suggestion through these forums ever getting heard.

Well, funny thing that. A discussion is being raised. If developers are leaving the project, decision makers aren't able to handle criticism without locking down posts/threads because it bruises there ego etc. In the best interests of the game and software's future, I do think this may be one of the reasons why such forums where setup in the first place? To discuss issues like this.

Why is it so or do I not have enough Freedom to be able to speak about such issues? Do I not have anybody's permission and is it easier to just lock this thread to save me from causing anymore trouble?

I've noticed that you guys have been looking for helpers for ages and not much has changed.

http://www.planeshift.it/team.html

Why haven't you guys been able to find good developers and why have developers been leaving?

Its a fair question and one which deserves a better answer than, ' its a free project and nobody has the time '.

The previous poster seemed to have a reasonable concern, quite credible I thought which was locked away and shut off. The fact that there was no response to the answer other than, ' its a free game so shut up ' indicates a greater degree of credibility to the author.

If there is a problem with management and incentives for developers getting onboard and contributing, I'd think that quite a serious issue wouldn't you say? After all, this is supposed to be ... dare I say ... Open Source, where everybody is involved and contributing. Or am I gladly mistaken? There's a double-standard somewhere here. So anyway...

Why don't they stay? Is there a management problem? You can lock peoples posts so... you can answer the question.

[Karyuu]

I have no idea what developers have been leaving, and I've been on the team for a year and a half. We have had 0 people consciously quit the team, 1 (DaveG) mysteriously disappear, and 1 Settings member (Kerol) switch to a GM Team Leader position because he felt he was better suited for it.

There are the people we have gained since then:

Programmers:
Acissej
Bereror
deathkiller
Kayden

Artists:
Gentar
Gluonite
Helm

Writers:
Jeraphon
Xillix

I highly encourage you to rethink your position, because it makes no sense.

Also, I have no idea what previous thread you are referring to without a link. I know Neko locked a thread on a similar subject some time ago, but that was because the original poster deleted his/her account, and thus was not interested in discussing anything. We're not interested in hearing rants when you make it obvious that you don't care about our response.

A lot of prospects who sign up do not have the skill level we need for the game. Some prospects who sign up go through a few tasks then find themselves lacking time to commit to the project further. (For example Kieve, who created the new beautiful Enkidukai skins. Things have come up in his life and he needs to take care of it, so no more working on PS until then.) But I have over 20 artists assigned, at least 10 of which I feel very confident in. Things are going to pick up incredibly if they stick around. The same goes for Xillix and his herd of prospects. Together, him and I have an army of people ;) Do you still want to tell me that we're unable to recruit?

I go through the Wishlist quite often looking for possible engine tasks to hand over to Arianna, so that she could get them assigned to engine prospects. I'm not the only one, as well. I listen to people's complaints if they are raised without temper tantrums, and I forward Xillix many threads relating to quest issues that he then tries to take care of. If someone is being a two-year-old in this forum, I have no qualms about treating them in a manner that they deserve. I spend too much time here to waste it on trouble makers. But if you're being honest and genuine about something, I'll make sure that you get heard and that your problem is taken care of.

[neko kyouran]

Also, I have no idea what previous thread you are referring to without a link. I know Neko locked a thread on a similar subject some time ago, but that was because the original poster deleted his/her account, and thus was not interested in discussing anything. We're not interested in hearing rants when you make it obvious that you don't care about our response.

Quick search shows that that was indeed the one where this person got their "quote" from.  As Karyuu stated, that is why the thread was locked.

Also keep in mind that was just the original posters OPINIONS.  And they didn't provide any evidence to back up that claim.  Since they deleted their account directly following that thread post, then they obviously didn't plan on ever backing up any of their claims, thusly making their entire reason for posting moot.  We promote discussions, not "come in and say something untrue just to say and leave to try and bait people into getting worked up and starting flame wars".

The fact that this guys post was locked down and stopped is another indication of retracting freedom of speech.

If I wanted to limit freedom of speech, I would have simply deleted the thread altogether and you would have probably never even known that thread to even exist. 

And now a question for you:  Do you have evidence to back up any of the claims you are basing your thread upon, or are you simply believing that what you quoted to be fact without ever doing any research into the subject before hand, and thusly coming to false conclusions about the true state of the project?

[ramlambmoo]

The simple fact is developers are always in short supply.  With such an ambitious project as an mmorpg (undoubtly one of the hardest things to develop well) the planeshift project needs very high quality members.  You're essentially asking people to do stuff which they could be (or often are as part of their day jobs) paid good money to do, in their spare time in between everything else that they have going on in their life.
In addition to this, there is already a base of very good developers at the top of the chain in Planeshift who have much of it planned out, and who make alot of desicions about it- these means new developers who come in don't really have much control of anything they're doing for quite a while (in a design sense).  Thats just part and parcel of such a large and complex project, but it means developers have to have a real passion for simply coding and letting others make desicions about where things are heading.  Alot of coding that developers do in their free time is stuff they do because they want to experiment and have control over the design process, but its simply not feasible to let people coming into the project have that sort of control in Planeshift.  So its one thing to have a developer who likes messing about and coding stuff up in their free time, and having a developer who is willing to simply debug a complex system for hours on end and fix problems that come up.
The attitude of "We have this game, why aren't lots of people volunteering to work on" shows a lack of understanding of software development.  Its such an arduous, complex, time consuming and (at times) frustrating task that I'm honestly suprised at how far it's got so far and the passion of the people who work on it.
The only thing I can think of that would encourage more developers to work on the project would simply be better documentation.  To be brutally honest, the current code documentation of planeshift lies between non existant and shockingly bad.  But you know, its a case of being one thing to pinpoint something lacking, another thing to fix it- every developer could stop work for a month and work on documentation in that time, but then the players don't get any new developments for an entire month. 
Simply put, the inherent problems with attracting developers to work for free to a project are far bigger than any problems caused by <insert conspiracy here>.  Its just a fact of life.  If everyone that got annoyed by the pace of development of Planeshift went away and learnt c++, and if only one tenth of those people had the intelligence and skill to contribute in some way to the project, It would probably be finished by now.  Until then, when the small group of people who are developers and spend time working on the project see posts like that, do you really think much good is going to come of it?

[zanzibar]

One of the most important things about having an open source project, is managing the people properly and giving everybody a fair go.

Don't forget the bit about treating people with respect and dignity.  I'd say more, but they'd ban me.

[Raleigh]

Debunking reasons not to open source indie freeware games

The writer of that blog said everything already on the link. I think it's futile to post this here, but I sometimes cling to insignificant hopes it'll make somebody rethink about certain pre-emptive points of view.

And although the code is open-source, the way this project as a whole is managed doesn't match at all with open-source, it's more of a freeware project using an open-source engine.

P.S.: OGRE is an Open-source engine, Pacific Storm is a commercial game that uses it for example. An engine is one thing, a game is another, although they are obviously interdependent and interlinked. PlaneShift engine is Open-source(Engine is the coding, etc.). Now the game(gameplay, story, graphics) isn't. So Open-source isn't a valid argument to question the development of Planeshift Game as it isn't going to be Open-Source I think. Though it is for Planeshift Engine. If you want an example of another ambitious freeware project to compare notes. Here is one: Babylon 5: I Found Her. Though obviously they have different aims, and thus different needs.

[Waylander]

Somethings people should keep in mind before posting:

1) Just because somebody said something, doesn't mean it's true.

2) Keep in mind updating webpages aren't way up there on the devs to-do list.

3) Do a little bit of research.

4) I'm better than you.

[Draklar]

I don't get this...

If Planeshift management is so suspicious and unprofessional, why not go to another, better free 3D MMORPG?
A highly successfull MMORPG with full open source pollicy, where everyone are allowed to contribute as they please, updates are very frequent and all content is nothing short of professionalism.

[eldoth_terevan]

A highly successfull MMORPG with full open source pollicy, where everyone are allowed to contribute as they please, updates are very frequent and all content is nothing short of professionalism.

Anybody know any MMORPGs that fit all of the above criteria?

[Illyria]

A highly successfull MMORPG with full open source pollicy, where everyone are allowed to contribute as they please, updates are very frequent and all content is nothing short of professionalism.

Hmm "Contribute as they please" and "updates are very frequent"
 

[Xillix Queen of Fools]

Dream a little dream for me . . .

[Induane]

.... I'm working for one, though successful is a harder to define term as its subjective and we're not running a public server yet.

Sorry I don't have thumbnails for this.

http://hellemans.cyanox.nl/hell/screenshots/castle/castle9-tex.JPG

http://hellemans.cyanox.nl/hell/screenshots/castle/castle10-tex.JPG

http://hellemans.cyanox.nl/hell/screenshots/castle/castleindoor1.JPG

http://vaalnor.mine.nu/Downloads/Media/Screenshots/Four%20Leaves%20Tavern/tf1.jpg

http://hellemans.cyanox.nl/hell/screenshots/keep/nightkeep2.jpg

http://hellemans.cyanox.nl/hell/screenshots/models/skeleton/steve2.JPG

[Draklar]

we're not running a public server yet.

Notify me once this changes. You've got a lovely atmosphere there ;)
And that street screen reminds me of an old story I wrote :<

[Jekkar]

You forgot the Castle Cellar and Hallway shots

[Xillix Queen of Fools]

Jekkar, Induane, Impressive.

* Xillix Queen of Fools tries to bribe them to come back to work for planeshift and fails