Denials

[Rabalder]

(This post is split and moved from post 17 on server failed to the complaint section, and the title "Denial" is created by the Moderator).

Do you have a wireless connection, by any chance?

No, I don't have a wireless connection.

Sorry for the question Karyuu .. But have you been playing PlaneShift at all lately? THE GAME SERVER IS DOWN PRETTY OFTEN! ...why don't you say so?
Why do you tell them to check the computer settings, and ask people if they have wireless connection and things like that?! ..When you should know, like anybody else who's playing PlaneShift, that it is CRASHING approximately EVERY 5 MINUTES in periods.
Why don't you even mention that?

(Does the team have an denial policy? Many of the people behind PlaneShift deny every thing that could be wrong with the game, the team or the team's decision makings)

And by the way; if you are able to listen to Internet-Radio WITHOUT INTERRUPTIONS and have NO problems with your Internet connection lately. There is a EXTREMELY HIGH PROBABILITY that your computer, equipment and your Internet connection is ALL FINE! . (..and don't touch any settings unless you know what you are doing!)

[Caarrie]

Do you have a wireless connection, by any chance?

No, I don't have a wireless connection.

Sorry for the question Karyuu .. But have you been playing PlaneShift at all lately? THE GAME SERVER IS DOWN PRETTY OFTEN! ...why don't you say so?
Why do you tell them to check the computer settings, and ask people if they have wireless connection and things like that?! ..When you should know, like anybody else who's playing PlaneShift, that it is CRASHING approximately EVERY 5 MINUTES in periods.
Why don't you even mention that?

(Does the team have an denial policy? Many of the people behind PlaneShift deny every thing that could be wrong with the game, the team or the team's decision makings)

And by the way; if you are able to listen to Internet-Radio WITHOUT INTERRUPTIONS and have NO problems with your Internet connection lately. There is a EXTREMELY HIGH PROBABILITY that your computer, equipment and your Internet connection is ALL FINE! . (..and don't touch any settings unless you know what you are doing!)

Rabalder there are more reasons then just the server crashing for people to have problems getting ingame and not being ingame does not mean a developer [Karyuu] does not know what is going on with the server. In order to get ingame you need to allow your firewall/router to access the port the game uses. Not all people know how to do this and many need help. Karyuu is doing the best job at helping these people. Sometimes the problem is as simple as a bad wireless connection NOT THE SERVERS FAULT.

[steuben]

And by the way; if you are able to listen to Internet-Radio WITHOUT INTERRUPTIONS and have NO problems with your Internet connection lately. There is a EXTREMELY HIGH PROBABILITY that your computer, equipment and your Internet connection is ALL FINE! . (..and don't touch any settings unless you know what you are doing!)

not as high as you may think, first becuase of a fun thing call buffering. and second you know about as much about the connection, setup, and software that Kaihl has as we do.

and no there isn't a denial policy. the server is stabler now that it was. and certainly stable long enough for someone to work through the char creator with it dropping the connection on them. the reason we suspect the client before the server is simply that 9 times out of 10 it is the client, unless something obvious like the server actually being down is present.

[Rabalder]

Yes, thanks Caarrie and steuben, for clearing this up this issue.
But if you read the whole post from the beginning, this could seem like people here do ask for help and don't know that the game server is unstable at periods. I believe it's important to tell people that, and have it in the back of the mind before people get recommended to juggle with Internet settings. 

(I actually have some experience with customer support in a very similar area, and I don't say this to be a pain in the behind).

[Karyuu]

I didn't tell anyone to juggle with Internet settings - I asked a simple question. Next time you approach me with a problem, Rabalder, I may just ignore you because of the attitude you have shown me, and the attitude (with all its false misconceptions) you seem to be displaying towards the PS team. The help I offer here, I offer because I enjoy making things work for people. So instead of making this harder for me, who volunteers more time than I really should creating this game for you, chill out and let me take care of people's problems without any crazy ranting.

[Rabalder]

I didn't tell anyone to juggle with Internet settings - I asked a simple question. Next time you approach me with a problem, Rabalder, I may just ignore you because of the attitude you have shown me, and the attitude (with all its false misconceptions) you seem to be displaying towards the PS team. The help I offer here, I offer because I enjoy making things work for people. So instead of making this harder for me, who volunteers more time than I really should creating this game for you, chill out and let me take care of people's problems without any crazy ranting.

I definitely never men to be rude or patronizing in any way, and I don't know what to say to this judging me to have an attitude problem towards you and the team, with all it's misconceptions.. ?!

[Karyuu]

Many of the people behind PlaneShift deny every thing that could be wrong with the game, the team or the team's decision makings

I have no idea how you jumped to this ridiculous conclusion, and this is what I was referring to. I've been helping people who have technical problems with PlaneShift for three years - I know what I'm doing, and if I'm asking something, then it means that the answer is important. Typing in all caps, bolding, and underlining something looks very aggressive, and I don't like being "shouted" at. So next time you post, step back and consider how it's going to look to other people, especially the person you're addressing. It's good netiquette.

[Rabalder]

Im really sorry for this. "Many of the people behind PlaneShift deny every thing that could be wrong with the game". I don't understand how I managed to write this part at all.
This is wrong and incorrect, nobody could ever say such thing, it's a conflict against it's own words.
My intention must have been to write "Many of the people behind PlaneShift seems to deny every thing that could be wrong with the game".  ...and got it messed up some how. 

Sorry!

[Karyuu]

No problem. But where have I denied everything that could be wrong with the game, please?

[Rabalder]

No problem. But where have I denied everything that could be wrong with the game, please?

We are probably way off topic here, but since you ask, I'm going to try to answer.
I didn't say you specifically, but I said "Many of the people behind PlaneShift".

The denial part is about avoiding to tell testers about server status or update.

When the server was updated, we got a little in-game warning that came about 45 sec - 1 minute before imminent darkens for more then a day. It was an experience more like: "We are going to crash! ... CRASH!"

I tried to find information in the forums, and my first suspicion of a denial policy came from this topic: Confirm or Deny
- Moderator Xordan start by responding a serious question with a joke.
..The topic starter ask again, and other joins in and ask similar questions trying to get answers to what's happening.
- "Old timer" Farren Kutter joins in with another joke in the same genre.
..Other replays come up and obviously wish for serious answers.
- Moderator neko kyouran finally answers that they are not going to give any answers and shut down the treed.
To me this was a shock!  ..coud this actually be the forum for the game PlanetShift? How is it possible for moderators and "old timers" in the forum to treat people like crap without any protest?
Why couldn't they just give a little bit information, at least the little info we got before the servers shut down? ..but instead they joke and have fun on others behalf, and support each others in doing so.
I was thinking that maybe someone on the top, has ordered everybody to give no information about the server status at all. If not I couldn't see any logical reason for holding back information.

I start a post that I thought would mend the wounds, and get a quick reply with useful information for the testers/users; Be seriously serious about server status!. And I strongly suggest that the developer's should give us some information.  ..this topic takes off, probably more than necessary. but we get NO usful information from the developer team, until the server is back up the next day.
So why was nobody telling us anything at all, before everybody knew? ...is there a denial policy?

Last but not least, this post.
I don't think I would be able to create a new character and log on in the worst periods of frequent server restarts, even if it choose random on all the options of characters and names. So I find it hideous to expect others to be able to do so, even if they had the right router settings and broadband connections. So ignoring the server status when someone has problems with connection, seems to me to be a way of shushing down the subject that the server isn't stable.

Do you understand why I thought the PS team have an denial policy?


I don't have any personal issues with you, but I think that some of the ways the team some times is handling us, is unprofessional and immature.
I'm going to try to see things from a more positive angle in the future, and I believe the PS-team is doing a huge and marvelous job that we could never expect anybody to do. 

[Karyuu]

Split and moved to the complaint section.

Whenever a new release is out, we 1) never tell you there's a new client until the server is taken down, 2) never discuss the release contents, and 3) never know how long it's going to take for the server to return and the new client to be made available. It can take a few hours, and it can take a few days. It all depends on how testing goes and how much time we have. Every release is a little surprise, a present for the players, so no, we're not going to tell you anything ahead of time. Then when it comes to asking us "How long?" we simply have no answers to give you. Plus when it's time to release, everyone is running around trying to get the new client out in every free moment they have. We don't have time to sit in the forums and answer every possible question that may pop up, nor give you hour-by-hour updates on what's going on. We're working.

In that "Confirm or Deny" thread, no one was treated like crap. I know it sucks that you didn't get the answer you were hoping for - but you weren't "treated" like anything. Every release there are new people wondering what's going on, and every time it happens we have a few friendly jokes and then a moderator steps in to ask people to calm down and wait for official news.

As for that "Be seriously serious about server status" thread, your questions were already answered by many - we're busy with a release, we have no time to stop and give you updates, Talad controls the website and he cannot update it when he is away (and yes, many developers are unhappy with that situation as well - we're not going "hush hush" on such things - but it's an internal issue and debating it in public will achieve 0 change). Normally I would update hydlaa.com, but I was on vacation during that entire time and thus did not have the chance to. Acraig could have, but he was busy making the release.

It all comes down to a time issue.

So ignoring the server status when someone has problems with connection, seems to me to be a way of shushing down the subject that the server isn't stable.

Many people, many people have problems with routers, firewalls, and net connections before they even encounter a single server error. I always run a check to see that their system is working fine first, and then if it seems that everything is as it should be, I investigate on our side. I'm not "shushing down" a single thing - you are grossly misinterpreting my actions, and that makes me more than just a little irritated. PlaneShift is absolutely ridden with bugs and errors and issues that make it unplayable way more than I'd like. I can highlight that some more - I have done so in all my time here. In every single "What is PlaneShift like?" thread I have ever posted in, I made sure that new players understand that this game is in development, and they may experience unpleasant bugs from time to time. If you see me going "Do you have a router?" before going "The server's been experiencing problems lately," that means I'm thinking longterm for the player. Because even if the server is having problems, if a player has a router that prevents him or her from logging in, he or she is going to experience that same issue when Laanx is stable - and they'll sit there thinking it's a server issue again, waiting and waiting for it to stop "crashing" when in fact it's another problem entirely.

The only thing we cannot tell you are the contents of a release (or future updates) before that stuff is made public. That's all.

[Xillix Queen of Fools]

Please never waste karyuu's time like this again or you will face wrath.

[Rabalder]

...
Whenever a new release is out, we 1) never tell you there's a new client until the server is taken down, 2) never discuss the release contents, and 3) never know how long it's going to take for the server to return and the new client to be made available. It can take a few hours, and it can take a few days. It all depends on how testing goes and how much time we have. Every release is a little surprise, a present for the players, so no, we're not going to tell you anything ahead of time. Then when it comes to asking us "How long?" we simply have no answers to give you. Plus when it's time to release, everyone is running around trying to get the new client out in every free moment they have. We don't have time to sit in the forums and answer every possible question that may pop up, nor give you hour-by-hour updates on what's going on. We're working.
...
It all comes down to a time issue.
...

I understand this, and why it is so, but I unfortunately believe that this is the reason for many misunderstandings and grumpy testers, so even if nobody has time to log on th the main web page for 3 minutes now and then to write an one-liner, I believe it would solve allot of problems and misunderstandings, and would be of great benefit to the PS-team and the huge group of testers.

Please never waste karyuu's time like this again or you will face wrath.

I /yield

[Karyuu]

I understand this, and why it is so, but I unfortunately believe that this is the reason for many misunderstandings and grumpy testers, so even if nobody has time to log on th the main web page for 3 minutes now and then to write an one-liner, I believe it would solve allot of problems and misunderstandings, and would be of great benefit to the PS-team and the huge group of testers.

Of course, I agree with you. And we will always try to give you news if we have the chance. But sometimes it is simply not possible. Say I am responsible for updating the website or creating a news thread in the forums, because all the other developers have their hands tied. I could be right in the middle of writing a news piece when something in real life comes up, and I have to drop what I'm doing and step away from the computer for 24+ hours. Or say someone else was responsible for updating the website/forums, but then once I realize that person is away, I take it upon myself - except wait, there are some release issues I need to take care of, and I get so caught up in fixing problems that an update completely slips my mind, because I'm exhausted after a long day of classes and long hours of bugfixing. Yes, it can upset some people, and yes, this is unfortunate. But we are really trying our best, for you. No one on this team is lazy, and we're all here because we are determined and hardworking people, all of whom want the best we can offer to the playerbase. But until this project is our one and only job and responsibility, you will have to understand our limits.

[Anonymous Coward]

Please never waste karyuu's time like this again or you will face wrath.

Wow, did this actually come from one of the Planeshift devs? Threatening someone for asking a question? Ouch.

--< AC >--