Author Topic: Just a few observations  (Read 3765 times)

Unnamed_Source

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Re: Just a few observations
« Reply #15 on: July 23, 2007, 08:51:05 pm »
We've been discussing giving players starter items for a long time now, so we definitely agree that new characters should start out with a little basic something. What we need in place is a system that will prevent abusing this - for example making the starter items untradeable and unsellable, which in turn means there needs to be a new way to get rid of them once you've moved on, so it takes a bit of work to really make this addition beneficial. I've no doubts that in the near future, you won't start out with an empty inventory.
All characters should start with level 1 in mining, a Rock pick, and level 1 in unarmed. With these two skills and this one item, everyone new and old will have the ability to be self proficient from the get go.

Downgrade the resale value of rockpicks to zero tria, since Rockpicks are not looted off NPCs nor are they crafted, they are limited in use and fuction to one aspect of the game, the one aspect that yields enough money to train and equip with, translating to less fustration in regards to money. Now, if NPCs do not buy things that are zero tria in value, then make the value one tria instead.

Level 1 in Unarmed, serves the function of gaining exp/PP, the other deciding factor and point of frustration in this game and since there is no item associated with the skill, there is no cause for abuse.
« Last Edit: July 23, 2007, 08:56:17 pm by Unnamed_Source »

ThomPhoenix

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Re: Just a few observations
« Reply #16 on: July 23, 2007, 09:02:03 pm »
I think you mean Melee for Unarmed?
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Feline Prince

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Re: Just a few observations
« Reply #17 on: July 23, 2007, 09:27:42 pm »
You would think they would want to discourage mining in a stalactite.
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Baldur

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Re: Just a few observations
« Reply #18 on: July 24, 2007, 12:17:14 am »
You would think they would want to discourage mining in a stalactite.
They do. Only in the upper levels, where the stalactite's the strongest, is mining allowed.

stumagoo

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Re: Just a few observations
« Reply #19 on: July 24, 2007, 08:28:45 am »
I like this thread it works as a good guide for other newcomers as well as pointing out to existing players how they can make life a litle easier for those new to the game...  Remember we were all new once (and those like me not that long ago).
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Duraza

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Re: Just a few observations
« Reply #20 on: July 24, 2007, 06:09:45 pm »
All characters should start with level 1 in mining, a Rock pick, and level 1 in unarmed. With these two skills and this one item, everyone new and old will have the ability to be self proficient from the get go.

The current character creation makes it so that the stats you recive are your strengths and those you have that are low are your weaknesses (yet to be implemented as everyone can train stats to the max). If this were to happen then we'd all be ok at mining and melee which wouldn't always make sense. I would make things easier for newbies but I think a different approach would be better.
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Unnamed_Source

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Re: Just a few observations
« Reply #21 on: July 24, 2007, 08:20:00 pm »
If this were to happen then we'd all be ok at mining and melee which wouldn't always make sense. I would make things easier for newbies but I think a different approach would be better.
I may not know about everyone, but all the new characters I've seen, be that from new players or odl, evenually pick up a pick and start shoveling for gold, they may not train mining up the ying yang but they do train to the 1st level. And for those starting out, even with  a high levle in a weapon or spell skill, the still need the PP train, so the first level in unamerd/melee will not unbalance the game either. This seems the easiest choice to implement, as for starting out gear would make the developers implement a new catagory of weapons with no value just to thwart cheaters looking for an easy buck.

As stated, Unarmed/melee requires no item to use the skill. Crappy attack vs weapons/spells, so no unbalancing.
Picks have only one use and are not aquired else where other than at the smith shops, akin tho the smither hammer and riviter. So setting their value won't affect the game.
Mining, which eventually everyone gets anyway, unless you are old player that gets automatically initiated into a guild and there for recieve instant help in both PP and money.
And if you think your character shouldn't have them, then don't use them. Simple.
Maybe you'd see things differently if you had to beg for coin and Exp so you could atleast become self sufficient. How about a restriction on joining guilds only after the 100th hour of game play, but this is no good since you can easily ask for help from that guild all the same. And yes, old players also have the advantage of donating funds to their new characters or asking already established friends for help. So when you see fault with this, try looking at it through the eyes of some one new, instead of from your now advantaged position. Then you might be forced like the rest of us to grovel at Harnquists for the first starting days.

Many players gravitate towards cross character interactions cause it is the easiest way to develop new characters. Why should the new players have this as a disadvantage over the old? Rules against such actions are hard to police and if the penalties aren't strict and severe for each offence, like banning, people will just ignore them. Ideally then, it is best to treat everyone like a new comer and help everyone start off the same. As for the moment, to get enough money and PP to train, new people with no one else for support are quite at a disadvantage.

Atleast for now it is a good idea and when the other skills eventually come into play, this solution can be scrapped which can then be replace by the other credit producing skills that aren't in the game yet, like herbalism , etc.

CrazyYlian

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Re: Just a few observations
« Reply #22 on: July 24, 2007, 11:21:26 pm »
Rather than starting with a pick or a weapon, or preset skill levels, why not start just a new character with say 15 pp, so they can train a skill to get started.  Yes, they still need trias, but those are much easier to come by.  I have tried multiple times to help newbies get started only to find the training is the bottleneck.  Even if you give them a pick or a weapon, and some trias to get started, they go say to Trasok to train mining, and find out they can't because they have no points.

Starting them with a few points will not only give them a way to move forward, but will permit some choice in how they progress, and also familiarize them early on in how training works, which is usually the second bottleneck.  (And it also allows newbies to start a character even when the NPCs are impervious, which has confused quite a few recently...)

<ding... lightbulb coming on...>
Idea for alternate method... a easily visible "city clerk" type NPC and a "beginner" quest; every new character starts with a simple quest to find the city clerk and 'sign in' (kind of like a city roster- advised, but no penalty for not doing so) ,  upon doing so you are awarded some PP and trias, and given a short rundown on starting places in that city (Harnquist, Trasok, temple etc).  That would achieve several things: provide resources to get started, direction on how to do so, introduction to communicating with NPCs, intro to finding your way around... most importantly, it gives the newbie something to do instead of standing around saying "what do I do?"

Karyuu

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Re: Just a few observations
« Reply #23 on: July 24, 2007, 11:37:18 pm »
FYI: It's going to be much, much easier for new players in the .020 release :) A lot of good ideas are floating around that will produce a better, newbie-friendlier start. We've taken a lot of beginner complaints and observations into consideration for the .020 plan.
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stumagoo

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Re: Just a few observations
« Reply #24 on: July 25, 2007, 01:46:08 am »
Why change the value  of the pick even,  If my memory serves me right a pick is worth about 80 tria trade in so taking that into account with the first basic couple of quests if a new player chooses not to mine and wishes to go straight to weapons training they can sell their pick and get some tria towards something else. in the grand scheme 80 tria is not really a big deal and its not going to upset the balance either (IMO)
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Duraza

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Re: Just a few observations
« Reply #25 on: July 25, 2007, 11:08:27 pm »
If this were to happen then we'd all be ok at mining and melee which wouldn't always make sense. I would make things easier for newbies but I think a different approach would be better.
I may not know about everyone, but all the new characters I've seen, be that from new players or odl, evenually pick up a pick and start shoveling for gold, they may not train mining up the ying yang but they do train to the 1st level. And for those starting out, even with  a high levle in a weapon or spell skill, the still need the PP train, so the first level in unamerd/melee will not unbalance the game either. This seems the easiest choice to implement, as for starting out gear would make the developers implement a new catagory of weapons with no value just to thwart cheaters looking for an easy buck.

Well yeah I can't say that most people don't use mining for money. The fact is they do. Me I hate mining to much to do it because I get to bored sitting there staring at my character look for gold then running up and down  ;D . Usually I just do quest and sell items to get some cash.

FYI: It's going to be much, much easier for new players in the .020 release :) A lot of good ideas are floating around that will produce a better, newbie-friendlier start. We've taken a lot of beginner complaints and observations into consideration for the .020 plan.

I'm looking foward to seeing it. That would definately get a lot of fresh blood into this game  ;D
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Beliy

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Re: Just a few observations
« Reply #26 on: July 26, 2007, 02:37:14 am »
I may not know about everyone, but all the new characters I've seen, be that from new players or odl, evenually pick up a pick and start shoveling for gold . . .
Well yeah I can't say that most people don't use mining for money . . .
Which quickly leads to the discussion/complaint about why mages, blacksmiths, fighters, merchants, etc. etc. feel the need to sweat in the hot sun and thicken the callouses on their hands playing part-time miners for spending money to finance their occupations. But that's another discussion.  :offtopic:  :whistling:

Unnamed_Source

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Re: Just a few observations
« Reply #27 on: July 26, 2007, 05:03:09 am »
Yeah, well the same argument can be said about the the only valid source of PP is from combat and at that, form right NPC. Where mages, blacksmiths, merchants, etc, etc have to pick up the sword in order to advance in their own specialties cause their own craft does not provide enough PP to train with.

But I have inadvertantly closed down one topic bringing up this subject, since it seems the powers that be don't rightly want to share their thought with us common folk, as this has been the status quo since the begining.

Beliy

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Re: Just a few observations
« Reply #28 on: July 26, 2007, 05:32:41 am »
. . . since it seems the powers that be don't rightly want to share their thought with us common folk, as this has been the status quo since the begining.

That's not at all true, they have shared their thoughts on the subject, repeatedly. Those thoughts tend to revolve around prioritizing an overwhelming number of issues, not the least of which is getting a stable game engine and server, with a limited number of developers who are all spread very thin.

That's not to say that we can't gently remind them from time to time that such things are a concern for the players. That is, after all, what the complaint board is all about. It may, however, help if we do this gentle prodding without casting aspersions.

Unnamed_Source

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Re: Just a few observations
« Reply #29 on: July 26, 2007, 12:19:11 pm »
... gentle prodding ...
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