Author Topic: The RP?????  (Read 20428 times)

Coneitic

  • Hydlaa Citizen
  • *
  • Posts: 371
    • View Profile
Re: The RP?????
« Reply #30 on: August 11, 2007, 11:31:19 pm »
i mentioned that emotes and npc statements were a small step i didnt complain about them, i used them as an example as the steps the devs are taking to further rp. and i know it takes players to rp and we are partly to blame most of us who quit didnt help. but some responsibility is left int he hands of the devs thats all im saying, more responisibility than say emotes or npc chatter. and as for guild houses and homes im not to fond of that because in real game time it wont be used much unless you put them in the city and if you do that its going to really lagg the city so i know thats something tricky the devs are thinking about. take dark age of camelot if anyone plays it theres tons of guild houses and player houses and noone visits them really beceause they have to travel to another part of the world to ensure cities wont lag. so as far as houses are concerned unless you make appartments in the city i really dont think they will help with rp community.


*edit*

also i'd like to say this, the majority of rpers from not to long ago know that the rp has gotten horrible in the game. and if you disagree then i truely belive you dont rp or dont find the beauty in it.
« Last Edit: August 11, 2007, 11:42:22 pm by Coneitic »
There is no right or wrong.... only Trias.

~Conietic

Tolol

  • Hydlaa Resident
  • *
  • Posts: 110
    • View Profile
Re: The RP?????
« Reply #31 on: August 12, 2007, 12:31:12 am »
Threads like this are those that make me very much afraid ...

I'm afraid that someday this wonderful game is discussed to death in the forums ...

and Talad throws it all in the great garbage can saying ... "they just don't want it as it is ..."

BUT !

I WANT IT TO CONTINUE !

Xordan

  • Crystal Space Developer
  • Forum Addict
  • *
  • Posts: 3845
  • For God and the Empire
    • View Profile
Re: The RP?????
« Reply #32 on: August 12, 2007, 12:33:17 am »
and Talad throws it all in the great garbage can saying ... "they just don't want it as it is ..."

heh, nah. Talad will continue making PS forever, even if there's no players :P

Coneitic

  • Hydlaa Citizen
  • *
  • Posts: 371
    • View Profile
Re: The RP?????
« Reply #33 on: August 12, 2007, 12:37:27 am »
the games beta. everything we whine about, everythign we praise, everythign we chit chat about. helps them make the game greater. if everyone sat down and said thank you sir may i have another, he would never have any insight on how the games going. we are helping far more than hurting.


« Last Edit: August 12, 2007, 03:22:18 am by Coneitic »
There is no right or wrong.... only Trias.

~Conietic

Under the moon

  • Forum Addict
  • *
  • Posts: 2335
  • Writer extraordinaire.
    • View Profile
Re: The RP?????
« Reply #34 on: August 12, 2007, 02:15:03 am »
Though hard to understand at times, Conietic has valid opinions and arguments. I will go through some of his points, and give you both sides when I can.

-Kada’s. Is it gone? No. Is the feel it used to have gone? In my opinion, yes. What used to be a place for live person with a true personality that would converse and jibe with folks in chat has now been replaced with a motionless statue that is there for the sole purpose of giving quests and selling drinks. Sure, you can try to RP with an NPC, but to what extent? As stated in another post of mine, talking to an NPC does not really matter one way or the other. Playing a barkeep mattered to people, as the interaction was true. The NPC placed there felt as if it was taking the place of the players that chose to fill that role, and indeed it has. I have not seen a single Player barkeep in there since the NPC was placed. There is no possible way to interact with an NPC in the same way as a player. THAT is what Coneitic means, and I agree.

To fix this, the answer is as simple as giving the bar back to players, and make it truly mean something at the same time. Make it a job. Leave what’s her name behind the bar, but move her away from stage center. That is where a player belongs if they choose. Now, create a new command called /bartend, /shop, or some other such thing. A single person who takes the position of barkeep for that time types /bartend, and a menu of inventory pops up, showing what is for sale. It is very much like opening your own inventory, only it would be the bar’s inventory. If a player asks for a drink, you simply open a trade with them and move the item from the bar inventory to the buyer’s inventory, automatically taking the proper amount of tria from them when they click [Buy]. Yes, that is exactly how NPCs do it. To make it worthwhile for the barkeep(player), as small commission would be put into his own pocket for each sale. Hell, the barkeep could even have access to quests to give out, such as sending another player to get a new barrel of beer from Brado’s when stocks started to get low (in a future system, that is. I know very well the one right now can not handle such a thing)

-<censored>. The <censored>. To tell you the truth, NO ONE has the right to say who is a hero to someone, and who is not. To people who were getting sick of the <censored>,  actions taken against it are seen as heroic. To <others> <who wanted to do something in another way> those same actions are seen as stupid. However, you have no right to thrust your opinions on each other as the only ‘right’. <some people> are heroic to some, and an ass to others. Leave it at that and shut up. BOTH sides.

-lol’s, smilies, and netspeak. Yes, I find these disruptive as well. I camouflaged the problem by editing my chat filter to turn the inane gibber into something resembling ‘normal’ speech. Yes, I could have stood there and corrected everyone who spit out an ‘lol’, but is that really my job? Not really. The client could be set up with a filter that auto detected  such things and  then send a Main Tab message requesting that player uses ‘common’ language in open chat. The nuisance of the message (in bright red) would be more than enough of a hint, and players would never have to step out of character to try to correct someone.

- ‘Good’ and ‘Evil’. Talked to death already. I like to call this lawful and lawless instead, as folks who break the law for their own benefit do not often see themselves as ‘evil’. In any case, though, there is no support for an ‘evil’ character to exist outside of player to player chat. This is a huge determent to actually playing such a character. I do not mean that as only being able to do ‘evil’ onto others, but having to worry about the consequences for doing such an act. I have talked in depth how I would change this already, so will not bother you folks with it again.

- Roleplay. There is still great argument as to what RP exactly is. Some say it is only reacting to the mechanics of the game, what can be seen, heard, and done. To others, it is the person experience of creating and existing as a character. Both are right, and are only two of many, many opinions that are also right. I saw one poster say that power leveling is the opposite of roleplaying. To him, perhaps. But to me, that is just another ‘right’ way to RP if it is done while staying in character. That is the key to RP. Staying in the character you create, whether it is using game mechanics, or only in chat with other players. People who go into the game ‘Just to do stuff’ with no thought put into who they are trying to be is one of the things I would say is NOT RP to me. That mentality seems to be growing a bit, though, and RPers find that scary. The reason for this is that once again the game falls short on telling folks exactly what is expected of them, with no prominent hints or nudges if they start to wander form the accepted path. It is left up to players to try to regulate that, and it should not be. I am not sure what kind of system could enhance the ‘knowledge’ of new players besides a full, step by step training tutorial, and a better Creation system.

That is what I have to say, long winded as it may be. Take it as you may, but remember that they are -my- opinions, and as such can NOT be wrong to me or those that agree with me, just as your opinions can not be wrong for you, and those who agree with you. Respect what others say, or do not open your own mouths.
« Last Edit: August 12, 2007, 04:17:05 am by Under the moon »

Coneitic

  • Hydlaa Citizen
  • *
  • Posts: 371
    • View Profile
Re: The RP?????
« Reply #35 on: August 12, 2007, 03:42:12 am »
im happy alot of these post are back.


UTM you did an oustanding job there, you really expressed your opinions and some i agree some i dont but im glad it was brought across well done,even the eid point. kada's is a woderful idea even if the /bartend wouldnt be available for a while, the player interaction woudl be great. as for rp i think its simple your a different charactor in a different world. how you create your charactor is your choice. however i think you should limit yourselve on your powers to make it fair to everyone. remember anyone can rp a winner, takes a real rper i think to loose a battle in style. but simply i think you shoudl become your charactor, not you charactor become you. as far as filter goes we have many gms in a small world that shoudl be monitored.. that should be their job. plain and simple. i would gladly offer my time to prevent that if it ment the better of rp.

i belive good vs evil is the only real conflict. but also whats good and evil is different to everyone such as coneitic. he doesnt belive in good or evil just making money. to some thats good to some thats bad but its a constant battle. without a constant or semi-constant policing unit there is no way to properly enforce these rules in rp. no matter what you think is right or wrong the devs should have already handed down a list of the laws in this town we are to follow and should be enforced. like thom said its his opinion just like alot of good and evil is one persons opinion. excluding some factors such as murder and theft.

my biggest fear of this game now really? is that in this stage of beta even tho its still in development alot of devs are not truely listening to its "testers" or "players" and i really belive we all are the key of this games success.

my list will be posted tomorrow. please place all critisism and agreeing under it. maybe it will help the devs understand what the community of thi game want and dont want and better help them. im not doign this for me for i know that most of these if not all will be dismissed. i am simply giving my view of the game as a tester.


« Last Edit: August 12, 2007, 03:49:01 am by neko kyouran »
There is no right or wrong.... only Trias.

~Conietic

Under the moon

  • Forum Addict
  • *
  • Posts: 2335
  • Writer extraordinaire.
    • View Profile
Re: The RP?????
« Reply #36 on: August 12, 2007, 03:50:56 am »
I beg to differ on the Devs not listen to the testers and players. Thay are, in fact, listening very closely. Most of the time, however, they can not simply snap their fingers and have things changed to the way we would want them, even if they do agree.

PS is an oceanliner. You can't turn it on a dime. But, I have seen it turning.

Earl_Listbard

  • Hydlaa Notable
  • *
  • Posts: 688
    • View Profile
Re: The RP?????
« Reply #37 on: August 12, 2007, 03:52:46 am »
Quote
i belive good vs evil is the only real confli

nah, who can label good and bad? no one really. And actually conetic, I hate to shock you but here goes.


Theres more then just "wham bam thank you mam!" rping...

Role play is not the uber struggle between good and evil, most rping is actually just passing by someone and saying "hello"

or going to the tavern for two minutes and having a friendly chat... robberies, wars, and crap like that are foot notes to my definition of Role playing. If you ask me role play is quite alive, just because your version of great players have vanished doesn't mean role play has died.

neko kyouran

  • Guest
Re: The RP?????
« Reply #38 on: August 12, 2007, 03:53:36 am »
Respect what others say, or do not open your own mouths.

I have gone through the task of cleaning up the childish insults and mud flings that were made throughout this thread.

Just as a firm but friendly last warning, next person to cause me to remove something gets a timeout from being able to post on these forums.  I ask you to keep in mind the quoted text above as you type your responses.

Under the moon

  • Forum Addict
  • *
  • Posts: 2335
  • Writer extraordinaire.
    • View Profile
Re: The RP?????
« Reply #39 on: August 12, 2007, 03:56:34 am »
Actually, Earl, that is what he is saying in his posts. He misses -all- forms of RP, not just the mondo-end-of-the-world ones.
* Under the moon reviews his previous post, then glares at neko.

You just lost a ton of respect with me, sir.

I do NOT appreciate being quoted in saying people should respect other’s words and opinions, and in the same stroke, censoring what I have to say about people disagreeing, and how they should just accept others opinions as personal views.
« Last Edit: August 12, 2007, 04:08:36 am by Under the moon »

Duraza

  • Hydlaa Notable
  • *
  • Posts: 761
    • View Profile
    • Want to know the truth now?
Re: The RP?????
« Reply #40 on: August 12, 2007, 04:01:50 am »
Actually, Earl, that is what he is saying in his posts. He misses -all- forms of RP, not just the mondo-end-of-the-world ones.


Yes. I have to admit rp isn't exactly "dead." There still are people who do the rps Earl is refering to like just saying "hello" to someone on the street. However for an rp game I think the point is we aren't seeing enough of it. Simply I think the problem is there is too much OOC talking (without even using brakets) and not enough people caring for the IC part of the world. For an RP game I'm not seeing nearly as much rp as there should be. Sure talking OOC isn't bad but some people are starting to ignore the IC aspects of the game period.
Saggi Lezeheso, The Whisper's Jest
Demoik and Rioqura, The Immortal Harrow
Vertum, Will of Dakkru

Duraza Darkom, Slayer of Kittens

Earl_Listbard

  • Hydlaa Notable
  • *
  • Posts: 688
    • View Profile
Re: The RP?????
« Reply #41 on: August 12, 2007, 04:02:47 am »
Im not only reffering to that particular post, im saying in general you can't say rp is dead or dying. I believe firmly that most ideas of rp dying off spawns when people see good role players become inactive, like bodacher, xillix, proglin, zorbels. etc etc

And really I don't see it that way at all. One cannot judge baised on 20 minutes of playing... thats all im saying.

Which im sure was already said but I needed to reinforce that thought because I get the feeling that in these kinds of threads most posts get over looked... hence why its still going on.... in...a...big...circle....yeah


Quote
(without even using brakets)

yes I agree with this duraza, but you must understand most of those people don't even know what RP means. because they're new, true some new players instantly know how to rp, but most do not. You cannot expect them to know without being told.
« Last Edit: August 12, 2007, 04:07:00 am by Earl_Listbard »

Coneitic

  • Hydlaa Citizen
  • *
  • Posts: 371
    • View Profile
Re: The RP?????
« Reply #42 on: August 12, 2007, 04:10:43 am »
i belive theres a misconception, just because i said i logged on a day and then freaked out doesnt mean i just played for 20 min. i have been hopping on quite frequently with alts. because mainly of coneitics entrance and also i wanted to be able to observe the game before i dove right back to how i was in it. i think you missed my point earl its not about epic battles and great good vs evil as ive stated many times. its about casual rp. just saying hello or chatting for 2 min is not rp to me its chatroom talk. i do admit when i go i go big but what i like is not that everyone is going big its everyones reaction. seeing peoples reaction to me and judging their rp. its very easy to see when someone is just stating their opinion in IC form or is stating their opinion through their charactors IC form. and that to me is what is lacking. not people saying Hail and Aye and Hello. but seeing people create a charactors personality and constantly trying to react to situations as that charactor would. i hope that clears it up. if not blame it on the alcohol.

also if anyone was on tonight me gwinn duraza and eid started somethign that was big and was excelent rp. i got to see people strive to bring their charactor into it and i also got to see people just reacting to as if it was them. in the middle of it we were able to help a new player which made it double the fun. we helped him and introduced him to rp. just because i say like to go big and creat big events out of the blue just to get a rise out of people. doesnt mean i expect people to do it. i find it very easy to draw a big crowd and thats not what i enjoy like i stated before i enjoy seeing peoples charactor respond to it not people respond to it.


*edit*

lol i take that first line back... There has been a HUGE HUGE misconception of what i said lol. but i take half the blame on that.
« Last Edit: August 12, 2007, 04:20:09 am by Coneitic »
There is no right or wrong.... only Trias.

~Conietic

Duraza

  • Hydlaa Notable
  • *
  • Posts: 761
    • View Profile
    • Want to know the truth now?
Re: The RP?????
« Reply #43 on: August 12, 2007, 04:13:05 am »

Quote
(without even using brakets)

yes I agree with this duraza, but you must understand most of those people don't even know what RP means. because they're new, true some new players instantly know how to rp, but most do not. You cannot expect them to know without being told.

Yes I've been told that many a time   :sweatdrop: . However I have two points to make against this. Firstly if its true that they are just new then why isn't anyone trying to teach them about rp or encourage them to do it? Secondly I mentioned to have tried to help some people get into rping. I used a couple different characters (because trying to use Duraza doesn't usually work with newbies..) but each time failed. From what I gathered they just didn't want to rp. Maybe I'm wrong and that my skills at teaching rp are just horrible (hopefully not else the fault is mine for discouraging players from rp) but either way it seems to me most new players just play to get skills and weapons. Some I can bet are rpers or will go to rping but right now I have no proof agaisnt what I've said.
Saggi Lezeheso, The Whisper's Jest
Demoik and Rioqura, The Immortal Harrow
Vertum, Will of Dakkru

Duraza Darkom, Slayer of Kittens

Earl_Listbard

  • Hydlaa Notable
  • *
  • Posts: 688
    • View Profile
Re: The RP?????
« Reply #44 on: August 12, 2007, 04:19:28 am »
teach the basics of game play via brackets, tell them to use brackets when not speaking IC'ly... keep them under your wing for the next few weeks and baby them in rping until they can stand ont heir own both oocly-IG and ICly-IG

thats what I did to all my apprintaces you can see a few of them on the forum today, or in game... not to toot my own horn...


Ok im tooting my own horn.

I heard a quote here that applies to many new comers "Be patiant for the very young do not always do as they are told" Something like that, it was from SG-1 a long while back so my memory about it is hazey.

I have yet to find a new player who when using the 'vesper of laanx' strategy of teaching, wont become an excellent role player...


first teach them about the game, show them the forums, get them stabalized oocly, show them around

then explain RP oocly, and hold their hand for the next week or so.

ta-da, I don't see how it goes wrong unless they out right vanish the next day.
« Last Edit: August 12, 2007, 04:21:40 am by Earl_Listbard »