Author Topic: The RP?????  (Read 20263 times)

Waylander

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Re: The RP?????
« Reply #90 on: August 13, 2007, 05:24:57 am »
Coneitic, Planeshift is in it's early stages.  Only the basic, basic stuff has been laid down.

You do realize what you are doing is comparing a toy horse to a house because they are both made out of wood, yes?

And no, PlaneShift wishes to be different in many respects from the other MMORPGs, something that has been mentioned again... and again... and again.
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Coneitic

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Re: The RP?????
« Reply #91 on: August 13, 2007, 05:35:29 am »
im pretty much done ranting. i spoke with xillix and got a bit angry as im sure i made him angry. those were my ideas and following the list im sure i made rude comments and i apologize.

i understand i was out of line with the "dont say it takes time" its just after so long.. and then looking back before i was even playing seeing the same ideas and suggestions be told that kind of line it makes me think its a cliche line to keep people from carrying on.

UTM i like your ideas good job.

no i have not done a quest since the ring of familiar quest when i first played. i was under the assumption i could put the groffle in the tavern with a description.. say holding a menu.

my main goal for this was to get the devs attention at what i see in the game.. and what i have been told by others who have played for a long time. i hope i succeded in that at least whether i was out of line or not.

so heres my new course of action. since i cant be a gm because i dont do quest, and you cant have a gm who is solely there to help with rp and monitor inapproprate actions and chat.

my new goal is to kill off coneitic. he has way to much of a history with in game actions and forum actions and that could very well effect the game. i will somehow stage a death maybe in this current rp im doing. he is revolting at the gods for their inactivity.. how ironic right? maybe he can be taught a lesson so that the people there can see. UTM since i killed off one of your charactors in the great noob mistake maybe you can help me with a nice stylish death.

i will create an alt. a peaceful one.. for a change... and spend my time to encourage and try to push people into rping. maybe a nice minstral or something like that. use my time to do my part to help the rp community. and i encourage all of you who have stopped playing to join with me and see if we can put a spark back into this world.

thanks for all the feedback and sorry for being rude and maybe at times irresponsible with my comments.    :surrender:
There is no right or wrong.... only Trias.

~Conietic

Jeraphon

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Re: The RP?????
« Reply #92 on: August 13, 2007, 05:38:00 am »
Quote
One thing I will suggest to the Settings team is to consider a quest that allows you to get lower cost drinks to sell in the Tavern, so as to start it on the path of a true and viable job for players.

Quests that help you get discounts have been discussed by settings and we're looking into 'em...but it's never easy, is it?  :innocent:

Coneitic, if you've never done quests, please don't comment on them.


Coneitic

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Re: The RP?????
« Reply #93 on: August 13, 2007, 05:48:39 am »
this will be my last response to this thread... the previous one was planned on being the last but i wanted to add this.

1. that was not a quote from me it was from UTM

2. I have never knocked a quest, never really commented on them. my arguement wasnt about quest it was about the rp. i said it before and i'll say it for the last time.

i think the development team is doing an excellent job on the quest and grind portion of the game. its the rp development thats lacking.

but we've been through this many times already and i already made my exit speech so im done. thank you for everyones time.


 :beta: ???????
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bilbous

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Re: The RP?????
« Reply #94 on: August 13, 2007, 06:17:42 am »
Here is an odd thought (probably divorced from reality): make "City Guard" one of the preset classes distinct from the others in that it comes with specific stats, advances in a different manner no pps, no skill training and give it a non-lethal combat attack ability that bypasses the /challenge system. Thus players could choose to have one, not more, of their characters on an account be a city guard. Then when some players decide to start trouble in the plaza, say, one or more other players could log in with their guards and react. Obviously the idea needs more polish and the possibility of guard on guard action must be considered but there it is in a nutshell.

The result of the nonlethal combat would be to beat down stamina to zero at which point the luckless miscreant having failed to escape is knocked unconscious for an arbitrary period of time. Make it so that the guards cannot use their abilities outside of their spawn town so the wrongdoers can always escape to the wilderness if they are lucky.

Probably not something possible but something to think about anyway.

Velh Krome

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Re: The RP?????
« Reply #95 on: August 13, 2007, 06:44:41 am »
Quote from: Coneitic
i will create an alt. a peaceful one.. for a change... and spend my time to encourage and try to push people into rping. maybe a nice minstral or something like that. use my time to do my part to help the rp community. and i encourage all of you who have stopped playing to join with me and see if we can put a spark back into this world.

Great and impressive move, Coneitic!

Garon

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Re: The RP?????
« Reply #96 on: August 13, 2007, 07:12:14 am »
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Another thing that could be cool is a private rp rating, that gives you a certain amount of exp. per ingame hour, and is set by the GMs when they see you rping well, or decently, and can fluctuate between being high and low (depending on quality of rp--you get less for mindlessly grinding, and more if you're rping beyond a certain level, at the GM's digression within a set group of guidelines).

You have to realize just how much grief the GM team will get if people see them judging roleplay and trying to figure out who is doing a good job. There will be cries of abuse, favoritism, and how no GM is ever on during some person's timezone so they never get the benefit of this system. It's going to be pure madness.

On enforcing roleplay, I'm strongly against this, as are many other developers. We encourage, not enforce here. Enforcing may mean driving away people with potential who are not ready or willing to roleplay just yet. Many people with whom you have enjoyed great roleplays with did not start out as they are now, and they may not be here at all if they were greeted in the beginning by a GM waving a banstick.

The thing is:  in the beginning, sure, there would be complaints.  Favoritism, abuse, no GMs online, etc.  Pure madness, perhaps, in the beginning.  People will be mad that they aren't getting what they feel they deserve.  Etc.  People will leave, it wouldn't be a pretty sight.

However, in the place I brought this idea from (yes, my ideas aren't original.  Oh noes.  Our GMs are actually DMs), the general consensus (it had been in place for years by this point) was "if no DMs are online when you are, ever, suck it up", along with "abuse will be looked into, but not openly discussed"--the same for favoritism.  Frankly, I feel sorry for the people on at 5:00 EST and no other times, because the chances of a DM seeing their rp is low.


I have a rather bleak outlook on rp in Planeshift if things continue as they are:

If you merely say "we encourage roleplay", you won't be doing anything more then saying "oh, roleplay is okay, if you want to do it, but hey, if you godmod/metagame ("my guildmate is now in trouble, a city away, I must be off"), that's fine too".  Godmodding and metagaming are a lot easier then rping, and if allowed, many will do those (driving good rp'ers away from the game).  Enforcing exceptionally strictly is bad (the ban stick should be used after repeated warnings over a long timespan, not before)--however, without enforcement, there will be about as much good rp as there is in WoW rp servers (from what I hear of them), except less so, because there isn't an rp planeshift server and a pvp planeshift server--all players of Planeshift will come to the same world.  I didn't start out as a great rp'er either (I had come from playing Grindscape, it was to be expected.  Either way, when I came, I had little knowledge of it, although I read the rules and tried it.  I slowly got better.  Those who cannot or will not rp, in my opinion, are detrimental to roleplay, and therefore, in the encouragement of roleplay, enforcement is necessary.), but from my time spent in Arelith (Neverwinter nights persistent world, they enforce rp with a rating, make it hard to grind, and in extreme cases they use the ban stick, however, the fact that it's harder to grind to get exp, and nearly impossible to grind to get money (daily crafting quota) drives away those who would rather grind then roleplay--enforcement of obvious metagaming/godmodding (using OOC information ICly) abuses, and such with detriments to the character (stat lowering), and in excessive amounts, the ban stick, keeps those who would do such things away or from doing them).  I realized that while I was a relatively good rp'er here (from personal observataion; those who knew Garon's circumstances perhaps could speak better or worse of his RP, if not particularly well known--Garon didn't want to be well known, though, so it was IC to stick to the shadows, make few friends outside a select group), there I was average, at best, because the average was much higher then it is here, and still is.

In closing, the quality of rp is going to go downhill as the game gains more features, unless it's enforced, or given heavy shoves towards rp.  This is because, as the game gains features, it becomes more likable for people who -enjoy- grinding and don't care at all for rp--and then less likable for those who enjoy rp, because it's disruptive to see someone chatting about game mechanics or the like.


Edit:  In what way will rp be required to do things in the final (aside from NPC interaction, but that's always roleplayed to some degree, even in Runescape)?  If not through heavy encouragement/making it seem better to the player xp wise, then what?  This seems much easier said then done at this point.

----

Also, a good policy as far as complaints about abuse/favoritism/not on at the right time in relation to the RP rating (or GM actions in general--it seems like a good policy to keep GM abuse reports private, if only because if the GM -is- abusive, imagine what they would do to someone who pointed it out on the forums? :P) could be that reports will be checked out, but absolutely will not be discussed openly.  Also, if there are 10 or so GMs who are known to be trustworthy (basically, a small, core group--from what I've seen, there is, although you never know), there would be a system of checks and balances in place that would prevent rampant abuse.  Also, forcing them to give a reason (this would help the players, as well--for instance "very nice dialogue about the nature of government", or "how did you know your friend on the other side of the map was in trouble?"), and then checking that with the logs if necessary to see if they matched, would work as far as enforcement checkings.


Here is an odd thought (probably divorced from reality): make "City Guard" one of the preset classes distinct from the others in that it comes with specific stats, advances in a different manner no pps, no skill training and give it a non-lethal combat attack ability that bypasses the /challenge system. Thus players could choose to have one, not more, of their characters on an account be a city guard. Then when some players decide to start trouble in the plaza, say, one or more other players could log in with their guards and react. Obviously the idea needs more polish and the possibility of guard on guard action must be considered but there it is in a nutshell.

The result of the nonlethal combat would be to beat down stamina to zero at which point the luckless miscreant having failed to escape is knocked unconscious for an arbitrary period of time. Make it so that the guards cannot use their abilities outside of their spawn town so the wrongdoers can always escape to the wilderness if they are lucky.

Probably not something possible but something to think about anyway.

An interesting idea, although preventing abuse of it by players would be hard.  Perhaps something you have to apply for the ability to do, or the like.  City guards don't make for bad rp.
« Last Edit: August 13, 2007, 05:33:14 pm by Garon »

Karyuu

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Re: The RP?????
« Reply #97 on: August 13, 2007, 07:25:44 am »
Don't treat this as a game just yet. Once most features are in, all skills, job systems, maybe 80% of all maps, you'll have no choice but to RP because the system itself will make you do it. Right now our features are very limited, so it does seem like there's nothing to do but grind or stand around talking. But you're missing an important point: we're far from done. We are so far from done, that there is no way you can make the predictions you're making and consider them even remotely accurate.

In the future, we are not going to rely on GMs to enforce roleplay. Players will go through newbie areas and tutorials, and be introduced to a system that gives their character many IC choices/actions. But I think it's a little silly right now to expect everyone to walk into a game that is only at version 0.3 and do nothing but roleplay 100% of the time as soon as they are there. The best of roleplayers get bored here and take breaks, and we know this. That's why we go on working.
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Smith: No, My Lord. I am attempting to conceal it.

Waylander

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Re: The RP?????
« Reply #98 on: August 13, 2007, 07:47:31 am »
I think everybody is just jealous that they didn't get to participate in the great crystal hunts :P
<Jeraphon>oh khado
<Jeraphon>you so khrazy

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bilbous

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Re: The RP?????
« Reply #99 on: August 13, 2007, 02:55:24 pm »
Thank you for the nod, Garon. In response to your objection I think it could be self regulating as there is the possibility for good guards and heinous guards and as much possibility for bystanders to login and confront the bad apple guards as just the normal wrong-doers. That is why I said some consideration to guard on guard action would need to be made. GM's could have Guard Captain characters and they would not all need to be "honest" either. There would of course need  to be guidelines set for the conduct of the dishonest ones that was strictl=y enforced.

Socius Rockus

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Re: The RP?????
« Reply #100 on: August 13, 2007, 05:20:42 pm »
and spend my time to encourage and try to push people into rping. maybe a nice minstral or something like that. use my time to do my part to help the rp community. and i encourage all of you who have stopped playing to join with me and see if we can put a spark back into this world.
Aah, So you never did that before? ... HNo worries, I'm sure you didn't do it to prove a point to the devs ;)

Coneitic

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Re: The RP?????
« Reply #101 on: August 13, 2007, 06:49:51 pm »
actually theres plenty of people who still wont rp with coneitic because i was outraged by the "i choose not to rp" comment that became so popular and constantly tried to push people into rping.. no so much my rp but in general even if you didnt like the rp that was going on, if it wasnt to far fetched....  like the demorian lords. we were against enki's. well a few of the knowledge seekers were like oh we dont like that rp. and would get mad if a demorain started insulting them as enki's and then turn it into an ooc thing. and this in my eyes... my opinion is totally wrong.. its like being a jew in ww2 and saying nahhh im good i dont want to go to the concentration camp.

thats a little extreme of a example but it gets my point accross. and i still stand by my beliefs.. and thats my opinion on rp choices. if they are extremely far fetched and really unbelievable then ya, its ok to say no, but when its something like that.. its just being selfish.

quote from Jaycc

"i dont play anymore.. i just hop on this for a chatroom"

funny huh?
« Last Edit: August 13, 2007, 07:30:54 pm by Coneitic »
There is no right or wrong.... only Trias.

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Karyuu

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Re: The RP?????
« Reply #102 on: August 13, 2007, 06:52:00 pm »
The Dermorian Lords event was overall OOC and it had many problems with settings. At the end it was ended because of the complaints from players and comments from developers on its IC impossibilities. The people who refused to participate had all the right to.
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Smith: No, My Lord. I am attempting to conceal it.

Coneitic

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Re: The RP?????
« Reply #103 on: August 13, 2007, 07:10:41 pm »
there were three of us who started that. well 2 and then i joined in. and of course theres going to be complaints. we were a race who hated enki's. but it was all IC... ooc we always.. and i mean always explained it was an rp. infact the overall goal was to create a war between demo's and enki's. i think it was me, gharan and chaz against blayze and alliva.. been a while. and we had many complications. lol many disputes between us. i think each one of us quit the rp like 10 times before it was finally disbanded. but it was extremely hard when people simply didnt want to rp because it wasnt "nice". IC impossiblity? never knew hate and prejudice couldnt exist in ps.
There is no right or wrong.... only Trias.

~Conietic

Karyuu

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Re: The RP?????
« Reply #104 on: August 13, 2007, 07:14:47 pm »
I'm not going to go into details right now, but you did have problems with various settings elements. It's a mistake to think that this RP was completely within IC limitations. Not everything was wrong, but not everything was right either - and in roleplay, either you participate in all of it or you choose to walk away from it entirely. You can't say "I like the overall idea so I'm going to play with you, but when you get to this part I'm just going to ignore it."

People have a right to walk away from an RP if they don't think you are doing something that makes sense settings-wise.
Judge: Are you trying to show contempt for this court, Mr Smith?
Smith: No, My Lord. I am attempting to conceal it.