Author Topic: The Gilded hilt quest .. Trasok can't understand  (Read 2153 times)

MM357

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The Gilded hilt quest .. Trasok can't understand
« on: August 14, 2007, 02:43:03 pm »
This is a quest from Harnquist .. Here is What he said to me :-

"I have an order of a custom sword that requires a gilded hilt.Can you go to Trasok in Ojavade and pick one up for me ?"

I said "yes" He continued :-

"The order for the gilded hilt has been placed already and it should be ready now. Simply ask Trasok about it. Please return when you have it. "

notice this "Simply ask Trasok about it"

I simply tried every thing came to my mind starting with "give me the gilded hilt", "Where is the ~ ?", "How is the ~ ?", "Is the ~ ready ?", "is there an order for a ~ ?", .... to "Harnquist sent me", "Harnquist wants his ~" [of course ..  ~ = gilded hilt ]

Nothing happened .. Trasok was unable to get my message .. I googled it and found a bug in the old bug tracker but for an old version [3.012] .. bug no. #1300 .. What made me post it here is this qiote from the bug page :-


Quote
Posted by: DaveG
Date: 4:27 AM 11-26-2005
This is being worked on heavily now, so hopefully things will work more intuitively come next update.

notice the date and the word heavily .. So I thought that I might be doing something wrong in the dialog and surely the bug has been fixed someway ..

Now Two questions :-
1 - Did anyone do this Quest successfully ?
2 - If I canceled (declined) this quest, will harnquist give me other quests to have the book of stocks which I need to practice metallurgy ??

Finally I would like to say that the idea of the npcs having a dictionary and understanding ordinary speach is a great one and can be a revolution if it continue developing. Anyway..  PlaneShift is unique :)

Magnoil Harrodin

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Re: The Gilded hilt quest .. Trasok can't understand
« Reply #1 on: August 14, 2007, 03:23:08 pm »
"About blablabla", though boring usually works well with npcs.

Jeraphon

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Re: The Gilded hilt quest .. Trasok can't understand
« Reply #2 on: August 14, 2007, 05:33:20 pm »
Yet another person with less than ten posts asking about quests on the forums. The fad continues.

No, it's not a bug.

But pending a restart Trasok should understand a handful more phrases to make this quest EVEN EASIER. *holds up gigantic spoon* Open wide.

MM357

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Re: The Gilded hilt quest .. Trasok can't understand
« Reply #3 on: August 14, 2007, 06:09:36 pm »
Firstly I am sorry Jeraphon If I annoyed you .. I didn't mean this by any means ..

Secondly I am sorry It was my fault and I opened a topic that is not very worthy of reading

 
[I just had about 12 hours trying different words for this quest and traveling from hydlaa to ojavede and backwards without any sign of advancing .. besides the game says while loading don't take two quests at the same time and when I decline a quest it stick and isn't declines .. and all this is not an enough excuse to escape saying sorry .. so I am sorry again ]

Thirdly I am really happy that it wasn't a bug .. hope that the game is more and more stable.

Thanks Magnoil Harrodin  This is another concept to add to "How NPCs can understand you" I got the point..

and lastly I expected someone say welcome not make fun of me ..  but no problem .. and I am still saying I am really sorry that I opened this topic.. next time I 'll try to be more struggling.

Karyuu

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Re: The Gilded hilt quest .. Trasok can't understand
« Reply #4 on: August 14, 2007, 06:18:29 pm »
MM357: Don't take it too personally, our Settings guys are simply swamped with quest complaints :) You can take a look at this guide for a small list of other phrases NPCs understand and respond to.
Judge: Are you trying to show contempt for this court, Mr Smith?
Smith: No, My Lord. I am attempting to conceal it.

Jeraphon

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Re: The Gilded hilt quest .. Trasok can't understand
« Reply #5 on: August 14, 2007, 06:54:07 pm »
Quote
You can ask other players in-game for help with quests, but please try to keep all quest information confined to the game – don't ask for nor share spoilers on the public PlaneShift forums. If you think you are experiencing a technical problem with a quest that shouldn't be happening, contact a Game Master and you will be assisted to the best of our abilities.

Please note this for future reference. It's from the guide Karyuu mentioned.

Magnoil Harrodin

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Re: The Gilded hilt quest .. Trasok can't understand
« Reply #6 on: August 14, 2007, 07:45:28 pm »
How do we contact GMs? By finding one? Filing a petition? Using the /advisor command?

I tried the latter but didn't get a response. So I thought I should try the forums. My apologies if I did by part in annoying you with yet another quest problem  :-[

Regards,

Magnoil

Karyuu

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Re: The Gilded hilt quest .. Trasok can't understand
« Reply #7 on: August 14, 2007, 07:53:32 pm »
A petition is a sure way of making sure they see that you need something. The /help channel advisors are more often than not fellow players who have been here a while and volunteer some of their knowledge to newbies. If you have an IRC client handy and it's not an issue that needs a Game Master within the game itself to help you (like get you unstuck or similar) you can use the channel #planeshift-gmtalk on Freenode (irc.freenode.net) - as sometimes a GM may be able to be online, but not have the game client accessible.
Judge: Are you trying to show contempt for this court, Mr Smith?
Smith: No, My Lord. I am attempting to conceal it.

Magnoil Harrodin

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Re: The Gilded hilt quest .. Trasok can't understand
« Reply #8 on: August 14, 2007, 09:16:31 pm »
Thank you.

Seytra

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Re: The Gilded hilt quest .. Trasok can't understand
« Reply #9 on: August 14, 2007, 10:20:05 pm »
make this quest EVEN EASIER. *holds up gigantic spoon* Open wide.
Hmm, the problem is that once you have a certain understanding on how NPCs work, it's not really hard to get the phrases right (most of the time, anyway). However, there are some quirks that simply aren't intuitive. Indeed the key phrase has been said by the NPC. Sadly, it's still hard to conclude what is needed... (somehow I can't bring myself to consider this to be a spoiler, as the content really is straightforward):

"ask about the gilded hilt" is nothing that anyone would think of, because:

1) it is completely removed from IC, and defies the illusion of talking to a real person. A real person would require a phrase like those mentioned by the OP ("Harnquist sends me to get the gilded hilt").

2) It requires the player to suddenly not speak as their character, but issue a command to their own character. That is a completely different concept and therefore breaks both what the player usually sees and the intention of the designers (FAICT). In fact, the more emphasis is placed on "the NPCs are normal people like other characters", the harder this change in concepts becomes to a player.

3) It is the exception, so most of the time a phrase has the expected effect, and this makes it even more difficult to suddenly try commandeering the own char in such an unusual way, especially since the complexity of the dialog involved would not change at all (so the command can't be interpreted as saving hours of typing; "explain <XYZ>" may be, but still, is a breach in concept).

If nothing else, IMO this unusual trigger type warrants an inclusion in the guide. It really shouldn't be something a player would have to think of themselves. The adaptation to the quest at hand may rest with the player, but not the discovery of the command itself.

Lastly, while of course it is annoying if people keep complaining about quests being difficult, it has been said that the quests are difficult for the wrong reasons. The reasons are interfacing issues, IOW OOC and completely unrelated to the quests themselves. People aren't criticising the quests or their content. Nothing is hard about the quest itself, except maybe the run to and from Ojaveda. After all, it is nothing but a simple errand. The issue seems to be that of course someone who knows all about the NPCs and their workings will arrive at the correct conclusions in no time. Someone who has no idea how communication bots work in general, let alone NPCs in PS, however, is going to have a hard time. As the saying goes "Everything is easy if you know how to do it.".

I assume that this quest is being easier to interface to after the new phrases are in, but this seems to be something that creeps up occasionally so keeping it in mind may be a good thing regardless.
« Last Edit: August 14, 2007, 10:32:13 pm by Seytra »

MM357

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Re: The Gilded hilt quest .. Trasok can't understand
« Reply #10 on: August 14, 2007, 11:09:12 pm »
Karyuu,

I understand this and appologize that I made a part of this swamp .. and personally, I have no problem at all .. I am reading the guide now .. Thanks so much for writing these guides.

Seytra,

Quote
People aren't criticising the quests or their content. Nothing is hard about the quest itself, except maybe the run to and from Ojaveda

cool :) and yes you are right .. all quest stories are not to be criticized, as for me it is only some contact problems which make some quests hard. but If I can make the npc understand me, it will be finished easily.

Jeraphon

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Re: The Gilded hilt quest .. Trasok can't understand
« Reply #11 on: August 14, 2007, 11:42:39 pm »
Quote
"ask about the gilded hilt" is nothing that anyone would think of, because:

You don't have to say it like that (although you can.)

There are in fact about 20 ways to ask "about" something.