Religion.

[Draklar]

Right, so what you're saying is that unlike in real world, in Yliakum people don't tend to have much closer and traditionalist communities in rural areas and they most certainly don't depend on gods more in places where tough living conditions leave their lives at nature's whim.

It also turns out hearing about gods is more of a reason to worship them than if your life simply depends on their decisions.

I'm not saying people in cities don't worship gods, but saying they have more reason to do so is absurd. Books are good for introducing you to religion, but after you finish reading one, a book won't answer your doubts. The most important source of teaching about religion are the people. Priests, family, environment. More family and environment in rural areas and more priests in cities. Now the question is what will be more influencial. People you live with, or charismatic priests you meet once in a while. Books don't even matter as in rural areas you'll have all the basics passed just by living with people.

Also before the (typical enough) misinterpretation, my point was
The source of atheism is either doubt or complete agnosis. We can rule out the latter as neither cities nor the villages here are some sort of secluded areas that common knowledge simply cannot reach. Now doubt is the heart of science. But considering Xacha are the most scientific people and yet they don't doubt the existence of Laanx, this source of atheism can be ruled out either. Atheism simply has no rational basis in the Yliakum.

[Coneitic]

way to switch ur point up. GJ

atheism is not rational in yliakum?


ya ur right, you must believe everything you read, you must believe what people say.


hmmmmm.... someone grows up only reading tales of gods, and rumors of other people. all through this time they are growing up an act of god is nowhere to be seen. as the settings say "the gods are away". but they must believe because its irrational not to? if anything since the settings say the gods are away and there is no REAL PROOF of them that all can see and watch. it seems far more rational to believe there are no gods.

in yliakum. the larger town "hydlaa" would have far more believers. seeing as how the temple and the statue is there. the more rural areas (oja) would have people less inclined to believing, as the only thing lifetime inhabitants know is what others bring.. books, tales.. whatever.

[Draklar]

Wow, so now you need large temples and statues to believe in something?
Damn, I wonder how come people worshipped deities before the Roman Empire started spreading the idea of large cities all across the Europe.

And yes, Coneitic, you're supposed to believe in everything others say. Right...

* Draklar throws Coneitic a ball of yarn.

Go amuse yourself.

[zanzibar]

Right, so what you're saying is that unlike in real world, in Yliakum people don't tend to have much closer and traditionalist communities in rural areas and they most certainly don't depend on gods more in places where tough living conditions leave their lives at nature's whim.

What I'm saying is that, unlike the real world, in Yliakum gods actually exist.

The source of atheism is either doubt or complete agnosis. We can rule out the latter as neither cities nor the villages here are some sort of secluded areas that common knowledge simply cannot reach. Now doubt is the heart of science. But considering Xacha are the most scientific people and yet they don't doubt the existence of Laanx, this source of atheism can be ruled out either. Atheism simply has no rational basis in the Yliakum.

Atheism, in the real world, is based on a value for evidence.  In Yliakum, unlike in the real world, evidence points to the existence of gods.

[Draklar]

If there's something you impress me with, zanzi, it's your ability to argue with people by supporting what they just said.

[Roderyck Slywolfe]

...considering Xacha are the most scientific people and yet they don't doubt the existence of Laanx, this source of atheism can be ruled out either. Atheism simply has no rational basis in the Yliakum.

You can't speak for the race as a whole, as individuals could easily have varying opinions on the matter, regardless of majority belief.

Also, there are varying degrees of disbelief/doubt.

An atheist is one who denies the existence of a deity or of divine beings.
An agnostic is one who believes it impossible to know anything about God or about the creation of the universe and refrains from commitment to any religious doctrine. 
A skeptic doubts and is critical of all accepted doctrines and creeds.

There have been atheists, heretics, and infidels throughout our own history. I'm sure Yliakum history is riddled with them, as well. From an RP perspective, this only makes things more interesting. Heretical organizations can make for interesting nemeses.

[zanzibar]

If there's something you impress me with, zanzi, it's your ability to argue with people by supporting what they just said.

If that's what you believe just happened, then power to you.

[Draklar]

...considering Xacha are the most scientific people and yet they don't doubt the existence of Laanx, this source of atheism can be ruled out either. Atheism simply has no rational basis in the Yliakum.

You can't speak for the race as a whole, as individuals could easily have varying opinions on the matter, regardless of majority belief.

I'm saying in general. And if I can do that, it means in general science in Yliakum doesn't attempt to disprove gods, giving no rational basis for any sort of atheism.

An atheist is one who denies the existence of a deity or of divine beings.

Just to nitpick. Atheism doesn't imply someone denies gods. It emplies someone doesn't aknowledge them. Atheism can take a form of denial (strong atheism) or it can take a form of no belief, without actual denial of the gods. As in, "I don't care" (weak atheism). Additionally atheism also appears when secluded person/tribe was never bestowed the concept of gods. That's what I call complete agnosis.
In a similar way you oversimplified agnosticism.

Now as our totally insightful friend already said, in Yliakum gods actually exist. This gives science a possibility to grasp the concept of gods. And as the example of Xacha shows us, the science did grasp this concept, and that makes the comparison with real world atheism rather inaccurate.

P.S. The power's always with me, zanzi. It always is.

[Roderyck Slywolfe]

Did I oversimplify, or do you prefer to nitpick things into complexity?

Either way, atheism and heretical behaviour, no matter how you perceive them only add more dimensions to RP in any campaign.

THAT's the point I was making. 

[Duraza]

Now as our totally insightful friend already said, in Yliakum gods actually exist. This gives science a possibility to grasp the concept of gods. And as the example of Xacha shows us, the science did grasp this concept, and that makes the comparison with real world atheism rather inaccurate.

Religion and science would be very weird in this game. In real life when people think of science they think of everything that relgion says differently about...In game though the scientific explanation for how the world was created would be that the Gods used magic. Magic...hmm wouldn't the scientific explanation for day and night be that the magic crystal gives off the light? Come to think of it I think science would be completely different. It sounds more like magic being the science to me.

Person one: How do people make flames?
Person two: Its the science of combustion. (I don't really know if thats true mind you   )
Person three: No. The great Talad gifted man with the glyph. Some of these glyphs use the power of the crystal to use the red way and create flames.

At least thats what it sounds like to me  

[Draklar]

Simplifying is okay, so long as it is accurate.

Atheism isn't a very interesting concept as it's rather mainstream in our society (well nowadays the tendency turns to agnosticism).
Heresy can add some sweet situations, that I agree with. And I wouldn't say it doesn't exist in Yliakum ;)

[zanzibar]

Keep in mind that Atheism is not a new thing by any measure.  It's been around for thousands of years.  The writings of the ancient Greeks are evidence of this.  The penalties for Atheism in old religions is also evidence of Atheism by reactions to it.

[Coneitic]

my point was, to sum it up for you draklar.

people who believe and worship would be more inclined to move to this big city where they can visit the temple daily and pay tribute. therefore the city would most likely be full of believers.

whereas people who did not believe and thought it was all... say a scam.. would want to get away from hydlaa, and its people. they stay away from the temple.

besides "Knowing the gods exist" is an OOC thing. believing they exist is IC.

nobody in the game has seen first hand there really are gods. so how is athiesm so wrong?

[zanzibar]

nobody in the game has seen first hand there really are gods.

Not true.

[Pale]

Hai, very not true - http://www.planeshift.it/history.html