Same monsters, such different strengths!

[Maju]

 

It's mad. When you can easily kill a tefu without a scratch and then you are even more easily killed in two hits by another... 

Same with rogues, etc. There's no way to know in advance how strong they are, so you can avoid combat when you suspect they are stronger and attack only when you feel you can win. I've tried using ranged magical attacks but to no use, as they seem to suffer about the same with them... but when you come to close contact the difference is so brutal that it just makes no sense. How can a "weak" tefu not being able to even scratch you and then its cousin can kill you in two hits? If such abysmal difference exists, shouldn't you be able to notice from the distance: "uh, a strong tefu in its prime" or "great, a weak elderly tefu with worn off claws"? I think you should and that these so extremely different mobs should be called by different names, so you can take them apart easily and chose your rival intelligently. Some call strong tefus "king tefusangs", or strong rogues "master rogues"... but you seldom know in advance which is each one (unless you grind always in the same spot).

I think this is quite unfair, really... and frustrating. Now the DR is not such a heavy penalty... but in the future it will be. Any character is expected (unless he/she is a madman ype of "hero") to try to avoid death, yet with such conditions this is more than just problematic: it's night-on-impossible.

[Caarrie]

have you checked the description of the mobs where it lists how easy or hard they will be for your character? [that is if you are intelligent enough to know [your char that is]]

[Velh Krome]

Actually I like it that way. A tag over enemies head giving information about their strength would be sort of boring, no? Too predictable. Look at the Cutthroats: All of them seem to be differently strong, which guarantees for some surprise.
Of course evaluating them, depending on mental stats like it is, generally, should be possible, like one can differentiate a weakly looking one from a musculuous one.

Factor of realism appears to be discussed much these days. Not to go offtopic now, this sort of realism I appreciate. You cant encounter a group of thugs and expect everyone to be of the exact same strength.

[Rongar Elani]

I would even go one step further. The npcs should have random strength, so that the one you just killed is either weaker or stronger next time he spawns. That would also be nice for the campers

[Velh Krome]

Grand idea, Rongar, I second that! =P

[Coneitic]

all mobs should be same strength. better for rp.

"hey im new to the land (or "im ready to start training") any ideas on a good sparring monster?"

"sure the rouges arent very intellegent and have minimal training"

or

"Im getting bored with these rouges. where can i find a challenge?"

"try the tefusangs, they have strong claws and tough skin, hard to penetrate without a strong enough swing"

instead its.

"hi where can i find an easy monster to kill"

"the rouge that spawns outside of hydlaa gates. he is easy"

or

"the tefusang in the far right of the arena, he only takes a few hits to kill"

[Velh Krome]

I cant agree.
A char approaching a pack of Ulbernauts for instance should sneak and observe, spotting out the weakest one of them. Every race has younger and older individuals, leaders and followers, who all vary in strength.

I remember long time ago I rped a hunt with my char and some friend, and he was seeking out the most powerful one for certain reasons whatever. That moment already I wished there in fact would be more of a different, yet all were of same strength of course (Volcano Ulbers).
Not that it spoiled our fun, but for rp it makes much more sense, in my opinion.

People can adivce newly ones like you propose, Coneitic, yet they could also tell them of races and instead of pointing at the one always being the weakest, they could rp it and advice to watch out for pack leaders as they are ferocious, especially with whelps around.

"the rouge that spawns outside of hydlaa gates. he is easy"

To me that doesnt really appear to be rp at all. In that case I would say, I dont care much if people do their ooc-play.


To strength modulating: Should be within some limits depending on sort of npc of course. maybe like the strongest possible Tefusang could defeat a weaker Ulber. Or something alike. I wouldnt think to introduce a random-count factor for strength (and/or other skills and stats) of npcs shouldnt be that hard? I admit I have no clue how it is coded though.

[ponder]

This is a graphical game, mobs should not look similar if they are not.  If  you want everyone to right click and read a description just impliment a /consider command like many old dikuMUDs have.

[Xordan]

I think the plan is that different strength monsters of the same 'species' will be of different 'types' in future. It's already done in some cases now.

[bilbous]

Speaking of that X is it intentional that the Malfusangs (sp) drop the Tefusang parts or is that just a case of labelling/modeling not being complete yet? Similarly the advanced Consumers (whatever they are called) drop regular Consumer parts.

[CrazyYlian]

I agree with Velh on this, the variance is a good thing.  And Rongar's randomness between spawns would be good too.   It would be nice to have some graphical randomness too (such as all rogues not looking exactly alike) but i understand that takes adding models and textures that are probably a low priority at this point.

Ponder - graphical doesn't have to ignore believability.  The descriptions can be way off too depending on your INT or training.  I rarely use them.  But all you need to know is that if this is a character type X, then you should proceed with caution.

Even with random appearance I wouldn't expect 2 rogues that look alike to have the same stats.  I find it not very believable that creatures and baddies are always going to fall within a set range.   Why shouldn't 1 tefu kick my butt while another goes down with a couple hits, or even runs away (can they ever run away?)  The way they congregate implies a herd mentality, so there should be dominant aggressive ones and weaker, more submissive ones. And if tefus have variety, human MOBs should have even more.

I was shocked when I first saw the aggressiveness of one (formerly tough, but beatable) rogue who not only damaged me badly, but then chased me down when I tried to get away (and I don't mean just walked after me. I mean chased - with bad intent).  But it was a good shock.  Its exactly what I should feel if I'm stupid enough to challenge an unknown rogue in a dark alley.

Con -  how does all the same strength help RP?  I would think a believable uncertainty would help more.

[Maju]

Problem is with aggresive mobs like rogues: you have to get closer to study them than them to attack you... what means that you'll end in DR if you are unlucky. Plus you need some time (seconds but decissive seconds) to read the text and decide. It's just sending people to DR gratuitously.

And anyhow... similar mobs, specially non-humans, should have similar stregths... if they vary, they can't vary from cat to lion, if you know what I mean. They can vary from weak to strong lion, but that's not the same as happens in game, where one tefu can be killed with zero risk and the other can't be even approached without death risk. The differences in strength are extreme, unnatural and not realistic at all.

[Jeraphon]

Speaking of that X is it intentional that the Malfusangs (sp) drop the Tefusang parts or is that just a case of labelling/modeling not being complete yet? Similarly the advanced Consumers (whatever they are called) drop regular Consumer parts.

Yes. Malfusangs are tefusangs in the same way that Great Danes are dogs.

[Roderyck Slywolfe]

And anyhow... similar mobs, specially non-humans, should have similar stregths... if they vary, they can't vary from cat to lion, if you know what I mean. They can vary from weak to strong lion, but that's not the same as happens in game, where one tefu can be killed with zero risk and the other can't be even approached without death risk. The differences in strength are extreme, unnatural and not realistic at all.

Explain then, the difference between a new character and a seasoned veteran. Just like PCs, creatures can have different experiences and purposes in the pack. There are aggressive tefus that have fought and non-aggressive that flee.

For example, a timid pit bull and a trained pit bull fight. I think the answer is obvious which would win.

[Under the moon]

Double left click the Mob from a distance. No need to get that close.

All creatures the same easier for RP?

* Under the moon almost chokes.

Cripes, I don't even want them to appear in the same spot over and over. But to all actually BE the same? Ya, that would be great for RP... if you consider Diablo to be a good RP game.

Random (within bounds) stats, random agressiveness, random (within reason) spawns, and with a certain purpose. Now -that- makes for good RP.