Author Topic: For the love of *insert whatever here* people .....  (Read 9334 times)

Waylander

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Re: For the love of *insert whatever here* people .....
« Reply #30 on: August 31, 2007, 09:02:49 pm »
and i must disagree. if a dev leaves because of whiners its the devs fault. they are too sensitive and need to realize if they want to develop on an open beta they need to realize that majority of the internet community are whiners. so thats something they must get used to.

any dev who leaves cause they hear people cry on the forums is a whinebox themselves and dont deserve to see something they create.

And people who get murdered should have been able to defend themselves?


"Do onto others whatever you want because it's their fault they can't stop you"?

The community whines about how slow this project is, that is the irony of it all.  They whine and whine and drive away developers and then turn around, ask why it's going so slow, get their answer, say the devs should be able to handle critisism and that it's not their fault they are whiny idiots...

Long live the community.

Disclaimer: I think I might add this part to my sig "Some Players of the community are amazing."
<Jeraphon>oh khado
<Jeraphon>you so khrazy

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Waylander, A.K.A: Cadoras, Khado, Nurahk, Armeen, Nostra ... God.

evil scotsman

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Re: For the love of *insert whatever here* people .....
« Reply #31 on: September 01, 2007, 12:36:31 am »
 \\o// @ ShadowKat

Nicely put, usually it's the complainers who tend to take up much of the forums with much the same recycled dev-bashing, nice to see more positive expressions of appreciation.

Certain people seem to be of the impression that they have a right to express these negative sentiments, simply based on the fact that they have been around a long time and convey the impression that they are 'owed something' for their time, namely that their input will be given extra weight based soley on the fact that they can shout loud and long on these forums.

Sorry to burst anyones bubble, but it's actually the devs that are owed something, our support, it's such a small thing really, but in fact essential both for the play testers, (us players, lest we forget are testing this game), and the dev team, not only are they owed the bug reports, and the problems we have in installing and running the software on our machines, but our thanks for having something to actually test. Equally the devs owe us a little time to listen to our wishes, our hopes and fears on the various directions the game is taking, and to an extent our complaints, however they have no need to be constantly harrased by particular players. Without the devs there would be no game, however the same cannot be truly said of we players, there is no requirement for such a large number of play testers this early in development, in fact we're priviledged to be a part of this project.

I for one truly appreciate the hard work the dev team puts into the continued growth of the game, sometimes it may seem to the players that not much is happening, however just because we don't see continual, large scale, and visible improvements every week or two is no reason to continually whine about the 'slow pace of development'. We are not privy to the work going on behind the scenes, or the pace of change, until an update is released there is no obligation on the part of the dev team to inform us of progress, and for every update there will be new bugs and problems for us to report, after all that's our primary purpose, extended play testing.

I have worked on a number of projects for my company, and know the frustration that can develop when the customer is not satisfied with the progress, and can empathise with the feelings of any members of the dev team who have felt that they could not continue to work on this project due to their feeling unappreciated by the loudest complainers, perhaps some support would have helped persuade some that their work was not in vain, however it's a sad fact of human nature that we tend to remain silent until we have something to complain about.

I for one will be reporting any problems I find in game with as much useful information as possible, without any impatience or frustration, since I too am aware of the importance of clear, concise and constructive criticism.

Quote
this game is volunteer right? this game is for fun right? so if you like coding, you like designing a game. you like... i dunno you handle rp right?  you like that. you dont let people, you can say people like me, you can say anyone who is a complete ass, stop you from doing what you like. because once your an adult, you pick and choose who you spend time with. when you become an adult you figure out that its about YOU. what you like, what you want.

and if you cant handle criticism or personal attacks, or even whining about what you like to do. then you need to run away to the jungle and not live with people. because the worlds tough. and if you let anyone, anything interfere with what you enjoy and what makes you happy then theres no point on living.

so to sum it up. if you stop doing what you like because of another group of people, your a crybaby and need to get a tissue to wipe them tears.

grow up.

And for your information Coneitic, it's not about YOU, it's about realising that there is more to life than your own juvenile self-gratification, I learned that about 20 years ago, go think on it, and when you can frame a cogent and coherent reply without constant self-reference, then by all means feel free to comment.
All right, look at my shoes
Not quite the walkin' blues
Don't fight, too much to lose
Can't fight the runnin' blues.

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Marqsaynt

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Re: For the love of *insert whatever here* people .....
« Reply #32 on: September 01, 2007, 01:18:46 am »
To the handful of people throwing around insults about other’s educational background, implied intelligence, and maturity, knock it off. In my opinion it only shows insecurity on your own part and doesn’t exactly contribute to the discussion.

To Coneitic, take a deep breath the world is not out to get you. While life certainly can be tough at times and has its share of jerks and idiots, most of the people out there aren’t half bad, and the ones that are miserable excuses for human beings are usually too self-absorbed to really pay too much attention to you anyway.

Also, while it’s understandable that you’re not exactly in the best mood when you get off of a long day’s work, the PS forums are not an appropriate place to vent frustration. It’s not why we’re here, and it makes perfect sense that people get annoyed when they read what could quite easily be perceived as a rant, though well intentioned it may be.

At the risk of actually going back on topic :P Nice post Kat, too often people forget that no one is twisting their arm to play PS and that the devs aren’t their personal game creating employees. The devs have their own vision and that may conflict with some of the player’s ideas but, as the old saying goes, “when you try to please everyone, you please nobody.” Fortunately we live in a world full of choices and if PS isn’t your thing or is heading in a direction you can’t live with, you don’t have to, move on to greener pastures and feel free to never look back.

Feline Prince

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Critique of the Dev team
« Reply #33 on: September 02, 2007, 11:47:45 pm »
People are different. Devs are people. If I do a drawing that I find myself proud of and someone tells me its awful then I probably wont draw another for 2 months. You have to understand complaining about a Devs work can have the same effect. Whereas if I was writing a story I would go straight back and improve it if someone criticized it. Its nice when a Dev has an instantly persevering quality, they aren't paid, its not required. Obviously if its not up to scratch they will have to fix it eventually. but constant whining will do no good for their short term moral. Understand also insulting someone's personality will hurt their feelings. In the case of the Dev team that hurt is not deserved.
« Last Edit: September 02, 2007, 11:50:04 pm by Feline Prince »
Hide where they expect you to... Its what they least expect.

Waylander

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Re: For the love of *insert whatever here* people .....
« Reply #34 on: September 02, 2007, 11:59:23 pm »
* Waylander hugs Feline Prince

My thoughts in your words :)
<Jeraphon>oh khado
<Jeraphon>you so khrazy

Xil|sleeps: I love cadoras

Waylander, A.K.A: Cadoras, Khado, Nurahk, Armeen, Nostra ... God.

socia

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Re: For the love of *insert whatever here* people .....
« Reply #35 on: September 03, 2007, 12:27:41 am »
http://hydlaa.com/smf/index.php?topic=29820.msg341722#msg341722

I call this complete lie. I saw too many people leaving PS because of it's way of developement, I saw now 9 artists and minimaly 7 coders leaving PS because it hmm 'sux'.  I won't name them as I don't know if they wish to be mentioned.

PS is beta opensource game, but somehow devs and people forget that as not having stable and bugfree system it's completly stupid to try to play on finished game with :
1: hiding bugs from bugtracker > deleting (in past they used to be delteted) and setting bugs private
It's completly against OS logic as lately a lot of fixes came from community and lot of them were fixing realy big security/exploiting issues

2: making me PL 48 hours just to test stupid magic won't help with finding bugs (devs already got poked with _quite_ long list of bugs in magic)

so what about more often having wipes and much easier to train?
What about stopping to hide bugs and leaving community to 'play' it's role?

Waylander

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Re: For the love of *insert whatever here* people .....
« Reply #36 on: September 03, 2007, 12:40:50 am »
http://hydlaa.com/smf/index.php?topic=29820.msg341722#msg341722

I call this complete lie. I saw too many people leaving PS because of it's way of developement, I saw now 9 artists and minimaly 7 coders leaving PS because it hmm 'sux'.  I won't name them as I don't know if they wish to be mentioned.
Without names this is doubtful.  And they were probably not devs but prospects.  If somebody was going to leave PS because it sux they wouldn't wait the months it takes to become Developers.
Quote
PS is beta opensource game, but somehow devs and people forget that as not having stable and bugfree system it's completly stupid to try to play on finished game with :
1: hiding bugs from bugtracker > deleting (in past they used to be delteted) and setting bugs private
It's completly against OS logic as lately a lot of fixes came from community and lot of them were fixing realy big security/exploiting issues
Way to call the devs completely stupid, first off.  Sorry "Completly".
1) Many settings bugs need to be private, otherwise people could go use spoilers from the database.  Now, if Devs didn't find spoiler list after spoiler list they may not worry about this...
2) I don't know about hidden bugs.  I imagine they were just badly written or such.  But, I do not know.
3) PlaneShift isn't your run of the mill OS project.
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2: making me PL 48 hours just to test stupid magic won't help with finding bugs (devs already got poked with _quite_ long list of bugs in magic)

so what about more often having wipes and much easier to train?
What about stopping to hide bugs and leaving community to 'play' it's role?

Yes it will.  In fact... that would be exactly what testing is.  Congratulations.  In fact, testing would be having you do that and, if you encounter a bug, redoing that bug, again and again.  You'd then have to come up with a recursion rate (The % of times it happened while trying to repeat) and narrow it down to up to around a dozen steps needed to trigger the bug (-step here, -step there - equip this) and so on and so forth.

The game needs to move forward, the training is being balanced but it is the training that will be in the final release.  For matters that need a certain level there are GMs who can set themselves to that level.
The community has again and again shown that the role they want to play is that of players, there is a large number of bugs on the bugtracker (not nearly enough for how long the game has been out) but, many of these are dupes and only a few players know how to write a decent bug report (Every single bit of information that may, in the smallest of ways, cause any part of the bug should be in there.)  If you are an exception, apply to the GM team, I believe they do much testing.

"Tester first, player second."  Maybe if you actually live by that you can use it as an argument.  As it is there is maybe a dozen people who can say they test.
<Jeraphon>oh khado
<Jeraphon>you so khrazy

Xil|sleeps: I love cadoras

Waylander, A.K.A: Cadoras, Khado, Nurahk, Armeen, Nostra ... God.

socia

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Re: For the love of *insert whatever here* people .....
« Reply #37 on: September 03, 2007, 12:48:05 am »
Way to call the devs completely stupid, first off.  Sorry "Completly".
1) Many settings bugs need to be private, otherwise people could go use spoilers from the database.  Now, if Devs didn't find spoiler list after spoiler list they may not worry about this...
2) I don't know about hidden bugs.  I imagine they were just badly written or such.  But, I do not know.
3) PlaneShift isn't your run of the mill OS project.

1)If you set 'quick rates' wipes won't matter > bugs can stay open
2)Whole planeshift is badly writen without some basic style or anything.
3)Are you sure?

I won't start listing names, but belive me I know whey too much to stay silent if someone lies like that. :-X

Waylander

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Re: For the love of *insert whatever here* people .....
« Reply #38 on: September 03, 2007, 12:51:56 am »
1) No idea what you are talking about.  I'm saying that the devs don't like quest spoilers so they keep bugs that spoil quests private.  (spoiler: walkthrough)
2) Please rephrase, not sure what you are saying.
3) Oh, there are other fully 3D Opensource MMORPGs out there?  I haven't found any.  Please link if you know them, though.

As I said, I imagine they are prospects, you've not addressed that.
<Jeraphon>oh khado
<Jeraphon>you so khrazy

Xil|sleeps: I love cadoras

Waylander, A.K.A: Cadoras, Khado, Nurahk, Armeen, Nostra ... God.

socia

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Re: For the love of *insert whatever here* people .....
« Reply #39 on: September 03, 2007, 12:56:59 am »
There is PT for example, bunch of people who disliked PS code  :-\
Yeah but quests are proprietary they shouldn't even be on bugtracker... I'm talking about OS part of game if you didn't noticed.

Waylander

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Re: For the love of *insert whatever here* people .....
« Reply #40 on: September 03, 2007, 01:00:13 am »
One other one.  That makes it quite none-run of the mill, doesn't it?

And you were talking about bugtracker.  Where bugs are made private.  I explained why some were.
<Jeraphon>oh khado
<Jeraphon>you so khrazy

Xil|sleeps: I love cadoras

Waylander, A.K.A: Cadoras, Khado, Nurahk, Armeen, Nostra ... God.

Draklar

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Re: For the love of *insert whatever here* people .....
« Reply #41 on: September 03, 2007, 01:10:16 am »
There is PT for example, bunch of people who disliked PS code  :-\
A bunch of people who for some odd reason weren't accepted into the PS team, actually. Well, that and people who never applied to PS and people who never had anything to do with PS.
One person doesn't like code of one location, and suddenly it's a whole bunch of PS code haters :P
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Leama

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Re: For the love of *insert whatever here* people .....
« Reply #42 on: September 03, 2007, 06:14:02 am »
We should get back on topic. Give the developers a round of applause for all they do for us. Maybe it is the players that need to take a long hard look at themselves to make this game back to what it should be. It just might explain why all the good players are now gone.
Life is lived forwards, but understood backwards.

Waylander

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Re: For the love of *insert whatever here* people .....
« Reply #43 on: September 03, 2007, 06:44:12 am »
To be honest, most good players seem to be making a return, ss of late.  Perhaps not all the way to PlaneShift but they are coming back into contact.
<Jeraphon>oh khado
<Jeraphon>you so khrazy

Xil|sleeps: I love cadoras

Waylander, A.K.A: Cadoras, Khado, Nurahk, Armeen, Nostra ... God.

Karyuu

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Re: For the love of *insert whatever here* people .....
« Reply #44 on: September 03, 2007, 07:13:00 am »
Disclaimer: Not meant at the general public. Target select people only.

I'm tired of whiners and tired of people thinking that they're either abused or always right or we're the bad guys and we never listen and it's so unfair and we're out to ruin everyone's time and nothing we do is for the players and we're selfish and we should be tough all the time and yet still down to earth and please every player faction and do all that people want and prioritize based on what they think they know rather than what we internally know and can do and yadda yadda yadda.

Socia: Way to go calling me a liar and then saying that we had 9 artists leave. Are you on the team? Were you in contact with art WTBs? Because I have been here since Moogie, and I know each and every single art dev that has been on the team since she left. Name me some names, sweetie. And by the way: prospects aren't developers, and they can't "leave" a project if they've never officially joined it. When they are WTB, then they can be counted in.

Listen. I don't come here to be bitched at by anyone, and the moment I feel that this is no longer something that brings me any joy because of the sheer amount of stupid and misinformation (so much misinformation!) and arrogance and sheer hate directed in the team's direction, I will leave this board. And you'll have to deal with what that will mean. You, not me, who will be somewhere else doing other things and be happier for it. I will stop listening to player complaints. I will stop listening to player opinions. I will stop sharing anything I know with the community. I will continue creating art assets based on our release plans and fixing bugs via the BT, and nothing more. I am on the verge right now and 100% serious about it.

You are the ones who create the very deaf ear you complain about later.

And you know what, at some point I couldn't care less.

With this thread, I am most certainly through. Thanks to those who have shown their support - you guys are amazing.
« Last Edit: September 03, 2007, 07:23:13 am by Karyuu »
Judge: Are you trying to show contempt for this court, Mr Smith?
Smith: No, My Lord. I am attempting to conceal it.