another great idea

[Coneitic]

how about time frames?


i've had many post deleted with the responses of "were working on it, it takes time"

so how about this.

an update on what devs are working on. many ideas are considered "good" and are told they are working on but when? i understand it takes time and its hard and its in the devs spare time. but what if a forum space is dedicated to what the devs are working on and its feedback.

a spot that a dev post what they are working on and when they expect to have it finished. also a time when the new client will be out.

since there isnt a payroll a "deadline" isnt the right word for this and times can very and change without consequences. a dev can simply post if something is done ahead of schedule... going to be delayed.... or is ready for when the next client is released.

it would show how much a certain area is being worked on and also give feedback to if something is being worked on that might not be important or needed at this time in the game. a great way for testers and devs to work with eachother.

[Karyuu]

We can expect to have something finished in a week, then personal life interferes and it's instead done a month later. Also, what is important or needed for the game is something for the dev team to decide, not players. Sorry.

Giving players time also puts more pressure on us than we need, because then it's working with another deadline on something we're just supposed to be having fun with.

Thanks, but no thanks.

[Coneitic]

way to not read my post and just skim thru it.


there is no pressure, deadline,  you've stated before, no payroll

We can expect to have something finished in a week, then personal life interferes and it's instead done a month later

thats why you post it will take longer, simple as that.

Also, what is important or needed for the game is something for the dev team to decide, not players. Sorry.

so your saying the testers dont matter? i said nothing about deciding.. read again..

it would show how much a certain area is being worked on and also give feedback to if something is being worked on that might not be important or needed at this time in the game. a great way for testers and devs to work with eachother.

give feedback... not make decisions. it will give a general idea on what its testers think about the project.


i stated before and i'll state it again for those who have trouble reading.

since there isnt a payroll a "deadline" isnt the right word for this and times can very and change without consequences.

any other devs have any opinions on this?

[Naekis]

I would realy like to see time frames and what is or will be done in the next time, but I think Karyuu is right in saying it would bring more pressure to the devs. Additional, I can imagine that many players gonna ask than why some parts are more under construction then others, they will discuss the prioritys of the parts which are focused. Sorry, that's my opinion.

[Karyuu]

You also forget that we keep a lot of content under NDA, so you're not going to see previews of anything aside CVS code changes. Release content is not shared with the players until release.

[Xillix Queen of Fools]

A great way for testers and devs to work with eachother.<---- you want to work with me? 

Our process is fine thanks.

Seriously if we gave everyone the chance to nitpick while an asset was being worked on nothing would ever get done. ever try to finish a drawing with someone (of dubious artistic ability) looking over your shoulder?

I can see miles of posts about "omfg they are working on X, before Y!!!!"

release dates are an internal matter by design, we want to periodically surprise the players at our own pace (which to quote you is at the pace of a snail). We don't want to name a release date because it could generate disappointment.

We prefer to produce and later refine with tester help.

Our best testers, are polite, helpful, use the bugtracker, build good relationships, and never whine, demmand, insult, or troll. If you want to help, govern yourself accordingly.

[Coneitic]

dont be sorry its your opinion and it helps devs. the main ones at least.

kayruu is basically saying the devs dont worry about whats good for the players just whats good for them.

your not giving a valid reason kayruu... only stating stuff we already know.


there is no pressure, because what happens if a dev has to say "hey sorry i didnt finish this "change" i had family come into town" or "i went out with friends this weekend didnt have time to work on "change". because its free noones going to complain. they will be like "ok"


thanks xillix, you just proved this game is about you and the devs and not its players..... that should prove well in working out in the gaming community... but hey its about you right.

and heaven forbid you listen to the community when it says "omfg they are working X before Y!!!!" maybe that should give some clue to "hey maybe the game needs something before another." but most of the devs dont play the game any more so i wouldnt expect you all to know.


to quote tupac

"its all about you... one time"

[Karyuu]

You remind me of someone named Datruth

[Coneitic]

OMG!!!!


maybe your starting to catch on. the gaming community isnt made of each and every person.

but everyone one of us falls into a group!!!!!!

there are several groups of gamers and its what makes up the gaming community. understand what each group has to say is what helps make a good game. you dont listen to each and every person that post. but the post will fall into groups of certain type of gamers that play. and identifying the groups and their points and opinions is the key.

right now you listen to 1 maybe 2 groups.... well you two..... i dont know about the rest of the devs. the more important ones.


and its funny you say that, because when the majority of us old rpers left to play other games, me and datruth argued all the time about things.

[Karyuu]

Do you think you're actually helping us with your posts? It couldn't be farther from the truth, Coneitic. Please shape up.

[Earl_Listbard]

Hey just a wimsical statement, what groups of gamers are there?


Call me curious.  


ok that came out wrong, but seriously.


BTW, con, I think you need to calm yourself a bit there mate, I believe the scotch is getting to your head.

[Coneitic]

its old english.. 40 ounce.. and 3 of them but thats not the point.


i cant name them all, but the fact is everyone fall sinto the group. read the forums, you can find a few groups there. find people who have like opinions. and who differ with others. thats the whole point of us being testers =)

[Earl_Listbard]

testers we may be mate, but lets just tone down the dev attacking, they're trying.


(Although I hear that xillix, oooohhh xillix is a mean one out to ruin our fun ;p)

Anyways, comments about the game should be encouraging to the devs and mod, staff in general, make them understand you appreciate their work.

Making lists, and wholes in their work is not encouraging, though believe me my friend, you can add constructive criticism, however you need the 'constructive' part in there too... other wise you're just flaming.


And no, the whole putting smiley faces after your scentences does not make them encouraging, or helpful.

Compassion builds a community, flames do not.

Now give me a cookie.

[Xillix Queen of Fools]

Coneitic,

I do what I do because as a player I saw a need to fill this role.

You sir, are going off half-cocked again

Between the two people you are now speaking with on the dev team you have specifically the two people MOST engaged with the player community of anyone on the dev team. Not only do we pay attention to what the players want, but also steer the rest of the team as much as is possible toward players getting what they want. Both Karyuu and I were long time players (relatively long in my case) before becoming devs both of us were either approved or participated in the gm team.

You are so far off base with your accusations it makes me want to give you a compass.

You state that we did not read your post, when we did, in fact, address everything you said.

Your self declared "great idea" is simply WRONG WRONG WRONG. <--something you do very well btw.

You further provoke with inflammatory comments that have no bearing on the discussion at hand, and very much ignored what I posted at the end.

Now let me predict what you will do next, you will read this, and then you will reiterate your original point as though I cannot read English. You will quote from this post and try to break down whatever argument you perceive as incorrect. You will be rude and carry yourself as though you are an elected representative of the player community.

Coneitic i have no trouble with you but the trouble you make. You telling me that the hours i dedicate to listening to players, to reading this forum, to popping into irc,  etc etc, is merely me serving my own interests with disregard for what the players think is frankly the second silliest thing i have heard today, the first is this:

. . . because its free noones going to complain. they will be like "ok" . . .

If this is true then say ok now and walk away.

[Waylander]

i cant name them all, but the fact is everyone fall sinto the group. read the forums, you can find a few groups there. find people who have like opinions. and who differ with others. thats the whole point of us being testers =)

Please stop calling yourself a tester, it's really getting annoying.

www.hydlaa.com/bugtracker
I can't find a single bug report under your name... odd, do you use an alias perhaps?

If you were a tester you'd have dozens, considering how long you have been playing.

To be completely frank when people quote Karyuu's

Tester First, Player Second

They are usually just trying to get the so-called "testers" to stop whining.

You remind me of someone named Datruth

In more ways than one.  You pick apart others posts while ignoring any flaws in your own.

way to not read my post and just skim thru it.

there is no pressure, deadline,  you've stated before, no payroll

We can expect to have something finished in a week, then personal life interferes and it's instead done a month later

thats why you post it will take longer, simple as that.

  This is the PlaneShift community.  From everything that I've seen in the four or so years I've been here this will end up with a lot of "Why" "OMG, WTF?" "Dude...we need that."  The Devs don't want the whole community poking about their personal problems

Also, what is important or needed for the game is something for the dev team to decide, not players. Sorry.

so your saying the testers dont matter? i said nothing about deciding.. read again..

And she said nothing about players not mattering.  But, oh no, thou art Connie, thou can do no wrong.  Players give feedback and often influence the Devs opinions but, the Devs still decide.  With your plan players opinions would reach into "Zomg, why you do that first?"

since there isnt a payroll a "deadline" isnt the right word for this and times can very and change without consequences.

any other devs have any opinions on this?

Not a solid Deadline but players would still whine about things not being done and being delayed.



Disclaimer: Some players are amazing.  Many are much better than I am, in fact.

Note: If you are not somebody who fits into the disclaimer you should strive to be.  Your whining gets us nowhere.