First guild house sold in game!

[Donari Tyndale]

A property tax? You should read the books in the library . Taxes are only raised when needed.

[ThomPhoenix]

Ahhh the instancing? ;P
I hope i will see one day how it was so needed So i can ge truly convinced about this.

Can you clarify? How do you think it's not necessary?

[Nikodemus]

The question is why do you think it is necessary.

Well, by instancing people will avoid risks like being heard by spies. They will use it to hide from others. In short words by instancing it is encouraged to avoid RP with strangers.

In the end there will appear RP problems, because you can't RP that there are different people at the same place and time, not knowing about it.
This will cause incosistency.
It can be bearable, but i'm pretty sure the system will allow for unnatural cutting yourself from others and so something what can't be explained ICly. The more OOC the less believable world and worse RP.

[neko kyouran]

if i were going to have an important meeting about guild stuff that I didn't want others to hear, I would go into the house so that others couldn't eaves drop, which is essentially what has been coded thus far in game.

I see nothing wrong with that.

[Lolitra, Celorrim Purrty Twins]

um??

The question is why do you think it is necessary.

Well, by instancing people will avoid risks like being heard by spies. They will use it to hide from others. In short words by instancing it is encouraged to avoid RP with strangers.

In the end there will appear RP problems, because you can't RP that there are different people at the same place and time, not knowing about it.
This will cause incosistency.
It can be bearable, but i'm pretty sure the system will allow for unnatural cutting yourself from others and so something what can't be explained ICly. The more OOC the less believable world and worse RP.

I really don't understand your point here.  It is not unnatural to live in a house... and not see others...   it is not ooc to have a secure location that cannot be overheard...

It is not encouraging one to avoid RP with strangers... the whole fun of RP is to get to know other characters.. the Guild house enables one to 'entertain' guests...  [and a by product is that you don't get inturrupted by the idiots who just run around and around - through you, shouting ooc things like 'how do I play this f**ing stupid game?'. or similar]

I don't see any RP problems at all...  the problem only arises from poor RPers... not the mechanics.

And it will mean that spies will have to be very inventive in their RP, infultrations etc...

[bilbous]

I can see his point to some extent. Unless you are to think that all architecture in Yliakum is soundproof and no glass is clear then instanced houses are a little OOContext. For example you really ought to be able to see into and out of windows, at least well enough to count bodies somewhat. For example if they are having a secret midnight meeting, even with translucent glass you would likely be able to see shadows where bodies block the light source. Sure steps can be taken in the interior to reduce visibility from outside, but with instanced buildings no such measures are needed.

So guild houses are out of context, essentially existing in their own plane. That just further amplifies guilds status as being out of context creations. No matter how hard a guild tries to conform to the settings the very nature of the beast means it is out of context...Guild Chat, anyone? How is that possible, in contextly?

That said it does not bother me too much as it means that you can reuse current housing for multiple purposes, Lolitra's house is her house but that does not mean it cannot also be the Klyros of Fury nest and the Yliakum Helpers desk as well. Ultimately you are likely going to have to double up housing to allow everyone to be housed anyway. In fact I would suggest that each exterior be associated with a particular interior type which owners could redecorate but not remodel and buyers could select whichever model they prefer at a set price. that way entrance to homes without a key would lead to a specific model instance. Anyone entering a home without a key would enter the same model instance. Only keyholders would enter specific owned instances.

Some kind of allowance will need to be made for burglars, I think.

[Nikodemus]

Entering a guild house you can't be heard by others. Yes. Thats logical. You wouldn't speak about important stuff in a room where people can hear you from the street.
Although in real you can never be sure you are safe. And by instancing you are. The system permits anyone unwanted entering the same instance you are in.
Eh, its hard to focus myself today.

The game shouldn't be completly predictable. It should suprise people and suprise them like the real world does.
The instancing has nice sides as i said. But the same way people want to protect themselves from OOC interruptions, they will protect themselves from IC actions from people they don't even know and who will play spies for example. If their characters are skilled enough and the game mechanics thus allow them and then escape unnoticed with information they got, it will be called RP, even if you will know completly nothing about, even as player.

So yeah, instancing has its bad sides too. People should deal with it and remember it isn't completly good for the game. We should be aware.

[Xillix Queen of Fools]

ever hear of infiltrating a guild?

I am not saying there is not potentially a downside, but i am saying if you are "spying" by peeking through a window, you suck at it. 

[Karyuu]

You guys are overthinking this. There's a line between making this 100% realistic and making it a game, and fun, and most of all work.

[Nikodemus]

:) ever hear of infiltrating a guild?

lol, i knew someone is going to say it ;D
Of course, but you can spy without infiltrating enemy lines and playing their friend, too ;)
In many games, people say for instance: "you die if you fall into lava" True? Sounds true and right. But it turns out that if you somehow train health high enough, you can walk on a lava for 5 seconds and then walk away, like nothing happened ;D. So, true? Nope. Not true.

So, with instancing, can you spy people by looking through windows? No. So can you spy? No.
So, can you, or can not? The final answer is, you can... sometimes. How do we know if we can or not? This world basic rules are suposed to be like in real, if not, you are learning life from almost the very start.
Thats ok for a game, but its terribly bad for a RPG.
I'm speaking about things in general now, obviously not only instancing, but hopefully you all can understand what i mean and see the damage.


The fun, hah, i wouldn't write about all this if fun wasn't what i want.
How about making realistic game? ;) then you can honestly say its going to be RPG.

No, my point isnt to torture myself play a game x] - that just in case someone is going to post the opposite.

I'm going to be ignored anyway, eh.

[Karyuu]

Then make a suggestion for a better system of working guildhouses.

[Nikodemus]

Hm, maybe allow any people the instance they want to be in? Means, a group of people in an instance can't permit others from entering it.

[Karyuu]

Is that realistic, if you own a private room or a private house? How are people allowed to enter, if they don't have any means to?

[Xordan]

Instances are there to improve performance. Some people struggle to play PS as it is, we don't want to make it even harder for them.

Also, there's nothing stopping people from entering any instance right now.. except that they need a key to unlock the door to get in.

[Nikodemus]

will they be allowed to look through windows? they would need to be in the same instance.
Perfomance problems, because of too many characters at the same time? I doubt all those characters would join the instance with players with performance problems. 95% of not 100% of them, will mind their own busines.

As about realism, yeas, you can break glass and come inside. Force the doors open and walk into the room. Not very sensitive methods, but they are allowed. Of course the law doesnt allow this, but the means does.

Of course this sounds almost like a pvp
So if course i'm not proposing this.
But i don't like idea of people who hide in a instance, like in a vault. Even if its tavern room. I can almost hear" Thief thief, get him! he entered the travern, he ran upstairs! After him!, where did he go? He disappeared... weird... "
Yeah, i suppose we we will have instanced tavern rooms once.