Author Topic: Roleplay vs. powerlevelling  (Read 11551 times)

Donari Tyndale

  • Hydlaa Notable
  • *
  • Posts: 748
    • View Profile
Roleplay vs. powerlevelling
« on: September 03, 2007, 05:07:05 pm »
This discussion has been around for ages. However, it reached a stage where the scales are leaning to one side, the side of the powerlevellers.

Let's take a look at the most recent things that led to my conclusion:

First of all, the implementation of houses. Houses do cost money. And who has money in a game where you were able to mine gold and get money 24/7? Correct, the powerlevellers. And what piece of the pie do the roleplayers, those that spent their time enhancing the community with their roleplay instead of mining, get? Not much..as the auction of Lolitra's house showed. I am aware of the old argument that you can not officially claim to own a house in PS, since everyone does so. But let's look at this from a different angle. Why do you level? Because you get rewarded and it is fun. Why do you roleplay? Because it is fun. You can not expect a reward, even though you help to enhance the game. Shouldn't roleplayers be rewarded? Lolitra RPed to own this house for over a year, yet other persons who mined a few weeks would have been easily able to outbid the sum it went for. In my opinion, this will lead to a major point of conflict. Houses will be owned by powerlevellers, if there is no change in the economy, since the amount of money owned by RPers is "peanuts" to the PLers. The other thing that disturbed me about the auction was an obvious lack of IC knowledge of the Devs. They could have thought about what house they were going to sell. I understand it was in a hurry, the houses needed to be tested. But unfortunately it was Lolitra's house. The argument of a Dev ICly, that Lolitra did not pay her taxes, was simply ridiculous. Lolitra as a char would always pay her taxes.

At this point I suggest a wipe -a total inventory/money/skill wipe-, since so much changed. Training and gaining money is now harder then before, and new players would be disadvataged. And those that seek to powerlevel will think twice about what game they play, as Planeshift is supposed to be a mmoRPg. There are other "great" games for levelling and pwning.

Secondly, there is an obvious inbalance in the game mechanics. Again, the PLing part is far more advanced then the things that are needed for roleplaying. How do you train? Wiht pps and money. How do you get them? Through hours and hours of stupid fighting. The crafts like metallurgy and blacksmithing, or for example bookwriting, are nothing in comparison to the part of PS that involves fighting. Tons of different weapons, armors, spells. That are things a Rper does not need. I would suggest that FUTURE projects are balanced, to add something for everyone. At this point, I do not want to critize the Devs. The Devs are doing a great job. I just want to suggest something for the future.


Sangwa

  • Forum Addict
  • *
  • Posts: 2083
  • Chars: Morwen and Gartheiz
    • View Profile
Re: Roleplay vs. powerlevelling
« Reply #1 on: September 03, 2007, 05:19:33 pm »
The struggle continues.

Valid points, great advise.

Let's hope people listen to you. I bet some will snap at the word "wipe." Let's take note.
Disclaimer: This is my opinion and I can be reasoned with. I'm probably right, though.

Join the Dark Empire!

Shami

  • Hydlaa Resident
  • *
  • Posts: 68
    • View Profile
Re: Roleplay vs. powerlevelling
« Reply #2 on: September 03, 2007, 05:36:26 pm »
Maybe I don't know much of anything haha but it seems like the game will still be changing for years to come, and they plan on wiping eventually anyway, why not let them balance the game and whatnot a bit before they go clear everything. :]
Proud owner of The Steelheart Collective, which consists of:
~~The Steelheart Armory: http://syndicate.xordan.com/wiki/doku.php/public:armory
~~The Steelheart Courier: h

Draklar

  • Forum Legend
  • *
  • Posts: 4422
    • View Profile
Re: Roleplay vs. powerlevelling
« Reply #3 on: September 03, 2007, 05:46:44 pm »
Pfft.

The dev team is way ahead of you.
AKA Skald

Donari Tyndale

  • Hydlaa Notable
  • *
  • Posts: 748
    • View Profile
Re: Roleplay vs. powerlevelling
« Reply #4 on: September 03, 2007, 06:20:03 pm »
Is it? In what way?

Xillix Queen of Fools

  • Veteran
  • *
  • Posts: 1876
    • View Profile
Re: Roleplay vs. powerlevelling
« Reply #5 on: September 03, 2007, 06:30:00 pm »
Donari you know we cannot tell you that, but let me get this straight, you got the house you wanted and you are still complaining?

I am at a loss.

As to us not being aware of the roleplays or that this was the lolitra house um, tough noogies.

We love our players and do all we can, it still seems like an endless stream of complaints.

I watched to threads recently dedicated to praising the devs turn into ugly flame fests.

Some players are making this a hostile environment for devs to work in.

Yet people also complain that we do not pay attention to them, then when we do, we are attacked, called stupid etc etc etc.

You had the money to get the house, others could have out bid you, they did not.

You call powerleveling what we call game mechanics, if your guild is not making enough money than alter this view, get people working for you etc. Write and sell books if you need for it to be in an rp way. Mining is not PLing it is Role playing a miner.

Fighting is not pling it is role playing a fighter.

we have said before that changes will come and balance will come and that we are working on it, that should be enough.

Enjoy your house.

Waylander

  • Veteran
  • *
  • Posts: 1562
  • Constantly correct since 1988
    • View Profile
Re: Roleplay vs. powerlevelling
« Reply #6 on: September 03, 2007, 06:39:37 pm »

You call powerleveling what we call game mechanics, if your guild is not making enough money than alter this view, get people working for you etc. Write and sell books if you need for it to be in an rp way. Mining is not PLing it is Role playing a miner.


That Hydlaa Herald seems to be making a nice bit of money actually.  A circle to read (and then give back when you are done) with quite a few readers.
<Jeraphon>oh khado
<Jeraphon>you so khrazy

Xil|sleeps: I love cadoras

Waylander, A.K.A: Cadoras, Khado, Nurahk, Armeen, Nostra ... God.

bilbous

  • Guest
Re: Roleplay vs. powerlevelling
« Reply #7 on: September 03, 2007, 06:45:28 pm »
At this point I would like to remind you that
Quote from: hydlaa.com
The objective of the PlaneShift is to create a virtual fantasy world in which a player can start as a peasant...
If you choose to do roleplay that does not garner you income you will remain a peasant. The house of Purrty, despite all their contentions of nobility started out with nothing and found a way to earn their money. If you choose to roleplay an imaginary income you ought to be content with imaginary houses and etc.
Stop bitching because no-one gives you their hard earned cash for being artistes. Artistes in medieval society all depended on the patronage of the well-to-do but begging is beneath you, correct? Perhaps you should be trying to instill a sense of "noblesse oblige" in the hearts of the rich people. All the same if you refuse to use what is available I can not feel any sympathy for you.

It seems to me Donari that you are one of the richer characters around although I might be mistaken what support for the arts have you given? As to the house, well the devs decided to allow the squatters to legitimize their claim. Perhaps the excuse given was exceptionally lame but the original claim of ownership was entirely specious. I might be able to bid on a house someday if I decide to hoard my money and stop buying training but then again I may not be allowed to buy because I remain guildless.

Enough rambling for now, please forgive the tone as it seems harsher than really intended.

Cilla

  • Traveller
  • *
  • Posts: 36
    • View Profile
Re: Roleplay vs. powerlevelling
« Reply #8 on: September 03, 2007, 06:58:47 pm »

You call powerleveling what we call game mechanics, if your guild is not making enough money than alter this view, get people working for you etc. Write and sell books if you need for it to be in an rp way. Mining is not PLing it is Role playing a miner.


That Hydlaa Herald seems to be making a nice bit of money actually.  A circle to read (and then give back when you are done) with quite a few readers.

Making nice money? Do you know how many hours I spent in writing and organising etc... I could have done 100*more with dumb goldmining.

Btw, you get 50 Tria back if you return your copy, we have some problems atm and thats why we only use 10 Heralds to lend.

I made a list and everyone who already payed, read and gave it back will get a Herald when we are able to do more copies of the 7th edition.

I believe you havent read the latest Herald yet @ Waylander...



Edit:
I need to support Donari in a few points.

Those people who are mutliclienting with 3 minerchars and mining all the day withouth giving any answers or those who camp their mobs for hours without saying a single word are eehm a bit annoying. At least I am annoyed by them and many other people ingame too.

€2:
I agree with Zan below me. :)
« Last Edit: September 03, 2007, 07:07:57 pm by Cilla »

Zan

  • Veteran
  • *
  • Posts: 1944
  • Just a regular guy, with an irregular soul
    • View Profile
    • Photography
Re: Roleplay vs. powerlevelling
« Reply #9 on: September 03, 2007, 07:05:05 pm »
I have to agree with some of the remarks here, while this game still could be more roleplay friendly, I would definitely not go as far and saying that the only people with power and money are those who don't rp. The game mechanics always favor those who spend more time playing, there is no way around that unless you do away with all need to work for your skill and tria.

While the average players get to grind their hours away at gold mines and monster spawns us roleplayers use our creativity. We earn money by starting up businesses, creating auctions, providing services the game mechanics can't provide yet, ... Personally I like it that way. Let the masses mine gold, I'll use my creativity to have fun and still obtain some of their precious tria. And actually I think that there are some very wealthy roleplayers around. Unlike powerlevelers, we don't feel the urge to spend all our tria in training our skills to the max.
Zan Drithor, Member of the Vaalnor Council
Tyrnal Relhorn, Captain of the Vaalguard
Thromdir Shoake, Merchant
Giorn Kleaver, Miner.

Grayne Dholm, Follower of Dakkru

Piker

  • Hydlaa Resident
  • *
  • Posts: 86
    • View Profile
Re: Roleplay vs. powerlevelling
« Reply #10 on: September 03, 2007, 07:13:01 pm »
It really saddens me when the old, them v us (RP v PL) thing rears its head.

Just because some players choose to use the game functions, they are labled Powerlevelers. Some roleplayers like to have stats to back that up their roleplay, that makes them a PL'er too?

To me anyone that roleplays a powerfull mage/warrior without having done any of the work to reach that stage is just off their head.

Like many chars i enjoy both RP and playing the "game", i just wish the pure RP'ers would get off their high horses sometimes  ;)

Can't we all just get on?  :flowers:

Raa

  • Veteran
  • *
  • Posts: 1005
  • Halp meh...!
    • View Profile
Re: Roleplay vs. powerlevelling
« Reply #11 on: September 03, 2007, 07:23:53 pm »
Are there really any powerlevellers at all? I mean, think about it. In PlaneShift, you've actually got to roleplay things out, instead of pretending to have a gazillion tria and an uber powerful axe that summons the magical pwning unicorn ninjas of the ancient land Ftw!  ::|

Kaerli

  • Hydlaa Resident
  • *
  • Posts: 157
    • View Profile
Re: Roleplay vs. powerlevelling
« Reply #12 on: September 03, 2007, 07:31:03 pm »
It really saddens me when the old, them v us (RP v PL) thing rears its head.

Just because some players choose to use the game functions, they are labled Powerlevelers. Some roleplayers like to have stats to back that up their roleplay, that makes them a PL'er too?

To me anyone that roleplays a powerfull mage/warrior without having done any of the work to reach that stage is just off their head.

Like many chars i enjoy both RP and playing the "game", i just wish the pure RP'ers would get off their high horses sometimes  ;)

Can't we all just get on?  :flowers:


Yes...I prefer having integrated game-mechanics+RP whenever possible or feasible.  However, PP are causing some severe constraints on this because you have to do something the game-mechanics supports to get 'em and some jobs simply won't be supported by game mechanics.

Sangwa

  • Forum Addict
  • *
  • Posts: 2083
  • Chars: Morwen and Gartheiz
    • View Profile
Re: Roleplay vs. powerlevelling
« Reply #13 on: September 03, 2007, 07:37:47 pm »
I can't see this is as an hostile approach to the topic.

The system is cute and all, and we certainly are aware it will improve, since we have been given continuous proof over the years, but it's obvious that parts of it are inconsistent as far as enforcing a roleplay environment is concerned.

Systems like Progression Points make it that fighting is a number one priority in a setting where people should be allowed to do whatever they want (since it is supposed to be realistic.) It makes sense that powerful mages exist, and it makes sense that someone who hasn't leveled as a mage isn't considered a powerful mage. The system is there for something. What doesn't make sense is that a fighter can be a mage, a miner, a crafter a whatever with just the effort of hacking and slashing. What doesn't make sense is that all fighters can. What doesn't make sense is that a mediocre fighter can be richer than a mediocre crafter (who had to spend 10 times more effort into becoming mediocre since he earns little PPs in his craft.) That's ridiculous. Powerleveling isn't the most important problem, a system that makes powerleveling easy is.

The system is Powerleveling friendly, though it's found lacking in roleplay friendship. Book writing was implemented a short time ago. Before that we saw lots of spells, revamps in the fighting system, new weapons, etc. There are little utility crafts and spells, but you can't get enough fighting stuff. It's my opinion, and probably Donari's, that the priorities are set wrong.

Hence her passive request in giving more emphasis to roleplay in the future. Claiming "Woe is me another one of these threads" hasn't helped so far. Maybe leaning deeper into it and getting satisfactory answers from players, Devs or GMs might be helpful though.
Disclaimer: This is my opinion and I can be reasoned with. I'm probably right, though.

Join the Dark Empire!

Draklar

  • Forum Legend
  • *
  • Posts: 4422
    • View Profile
Re: Roleplay vs. powerlevelling
« Reply #14 on: September 03, 2007, 07:58:10 pm »
Sangwa, I stated this many times in past and probably will state it many times to come: Planeshift isn't really a roleplaying game. It lacks roleplaying features.
Over the recent months I learnt that stating as little is enough to make local top roleplayers accuse you of not being a roleplayer.
I also learnt the dev team fully aknowledges these problems and works hard to turn it all upside down, giving more dvantage to the roleplayers.

So please, who is more aware of this situation? ;)
AKA Skald