Author Topic: Roleplay vs. powerlevelling  (Read 11706 times)

Draklar

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Re: Roleplay vs. powerlevelling
« Reply #60 on: September 04, 2007, 06:53:40 pm »
1. hmm pretty sure it is against the terms of service to trade characters. I could be wrong though.
And it's extremely easy to make sure the terms aren't broken, right?
2. I do not understand what this specifically refers to, I suppose regulating character levels (which do not really exist--there are only skill and stat levels.)
Compare how much experience is gained by fighting Ulbernauts and how much earned by fighting rats. Now set a "max cap" somewhere.
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bilbous

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Re: Roleplay vs. powerlevelling
« Reply #61 on: September 04, 2007, 07:01:14 pm »
1. players should not be encouraged to break the terms of service, not to mention that lending your character to someone would likely result in that character doing stuff you would not have it do.

s. I still do not see how this would help but I am not a dev so I do not need to. The best I could think of is to average all stats/skills and use that to determine your cap. I still do not think it is a good idea though.

Draklar

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Re: Roleplay vs. powerlevelling
« Reply #62 on: September 04, 2007, 07:05:07 pm »
Has it occured to you I've been saying why Waylander's ideas wouldn't work?

Quote
hint
Though none of this prevents powerleveling.
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Xillix Queen of Fools

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Re: Roleplay vs. powerlevelling
« Reply #63 on: September 04, 2007, 07:24:44 pm »
I think we should as a community try hard to define our terms.

Engagement with the engine is not powerleveling, nor is it the enemy of roleplaying.

We do have some internal ideas about what to do about the situation of skills and everyone being able to master everything.

We also have ideas about how to increase role playing and how to reward it.

which will open the way to "power-rpers?"

I think in general the term poweleveler is thrown around too liberally.

In the end, i do not think we will be free from that class of people who do this:

http://www.megagames.com/news/redir.cgi?http://ftp.megagames.com/freegames/statbuilder.zip

Waylander

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Re: Roleplay vs. powerlevelling
« Reply #64 on: September 04, 2007, 07:30:42 pm »
In other words cripple the game to punish people who actually enjoy playing it to favor those who would rather just pretend?

Some specific rejoinders:
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Limit the amount of Exp per day to something that doesn't take long to get.
I suppose you would regulate that based on character levels but wait a character might have 50 in sword and armor and little else how much would be a good amount for this character? 2400 xp would be one monster for him. If I have 10 hours to play a day and stop getting xp after 5 minutes what do I do with the other 9 hours and 55 minutes? attempt to blow bubbles out of my butt?

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Have increases in one skill cause decreases in another.
Hmm most skills start at 0 what would be the effect of negative skill numbers? If I train magic and my weapons go below 0 doe it mean I cannot even equip a weapon?

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Limit the amount of training NPCs give out in a day.
This one might be a little more reasonable but how much is enough? If I want to put long hours into advancing my character why should I be limited to what someone who plays much less can earn? By the way are you talking game days or real days because game days are fairly quick so it would not be much of a restriction except at relatively low levels.

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It's extremely easy to eliminate powerleveling.
well if you are going to do that I hope you would never rp a character with stats greater than what the database thinks you have, that to me is the most egregious type of power-levelling around. "Look at me I'm so powerful I don't even need to train at all to wipe you out!"


Way to take everything I said to the extreme Bilbous...

Regulate by time ingame.  Simple.  (That would be ever.  Somebody who has played for 5 days worth of hours should be able to gain more Exp than somebody who has played for 1)

Granted, it's impossible at the moment, it was more an example for other games/systems.

Regulate by levels.

I've no idea where that comment came from.

...

As for trading characters, what's stopping that from happening right now?

I understand you love to see your own posts but, I imagine you came up with these solutions while typing out the flaws they solve.  Please, don't be silly.
« Last Edit: September 04, 2007, 07:41:24 pm by Waylander »
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Draklar

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Re: Roleplay vs. powerlevelling
« Reply #65 on: September 04, 2007, 07:43:39 pm »
As for trading characters, what's stopping that from happening right now?
Low game success and ability to quickly level the character yourself.
AKA Skald

Waylander

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Re: Roleplay vs. powerlevelling
« Reply #66 on: September 04, 2007, 07:44:46 pm »
It's not that easy for many people.  They don't have the time or the patience.

It may cause powerlevelers to level multiple characters at a time but, most likely, they'll just get bored ;)
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Draklar

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Re: Roleplay vs. powerlevelling
« Reply #67 on: September 04, 2007, 07:47:25 pm »
It's not that easy for many people.  They don't have the time or the patience.
But there's no limitations. If the game was successfull it would open the market. Now with such limitations the market would be much bigger.
AKA Skald

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Re: Roleplay vs. powerlevelling
« Reply #68 on: September 04, 2007, 07:57:06 pm »
Draklar, be reasonable.  The market will be there no matter what.  This system punishes only the powerlevelers, you are assuming that the daily limit will be small for the sake of finding an error.  The system is in place to stop people who powerlevel for 2 or 3 hours a day.  The limits would be most reasonable.
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zanzibar

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Re: Roleplay vs. powerlevelling
« Reply #69 on: September 04, 2007, 09:13:35 pm »
Lolitra RPed to own this house for over a year, yet other persons who mined a few weeks would have been easily able to outbid the sum it went for... The other thing that disturbed me about the auction was an obvious lack of IC knowledge of the Devs.
Lolitra was godmoding.  Sorry.


At this point I suggest a wipe -a total inventory/money/skill wipe-, since so much changed.
That would only give the powerlevellers an even greater advantage since they'd be the ones to get their skills and money back the fastest.


Secondly, there is an obvious inbalance in the game mechanics. Again, the PLing part is far more advanced then the things that are needed for roleplaying. How do you train? Wiht pps and money. How do you get them? Through hours and hours of stupid fighting. The crafts like metallurgy and blacksmithing, or for example bookwriting, are nothing in comparison to the part of PS that involves fighting. Tons of different weapons, armors, spells. That are things a Rper does not need. I would suggest that FUTURE projects are balanced, to add something for everyone. At this point, I do not want to critize the Devs. The Devs are doing a great job. I just want to suggest something for the future.
I agree 100%, but it's all been said before.  I'll go a few steps further however:

- make it easier to level up (for instance, killing a single rat might be enough to advance a low combat level)

- make it easier to max out skills (so that roleplayers can have powerful characters as well)

- make it so that you can't have exceptional ability in but a few skills at a time (it would force people to specialize their characters)


Take a minute to think about this.  Really think about this.  It would allow people to make the characters they want to make without countless hours of pointless grinding.  It would mean that more "roleplayers" will be attracted to the game because they can roleplay the characters they want, and it will mean the "powerlevellers" won't have unreasonable advantages over everyone else.

The one thing that we cannot forget however is that the "problem" of "powerlevellers" will never be solved by making trainer harder or by making money harder to get.  Whenever that happens, "powerlevellers" are given more of an advantage over the rest of us.
« Last Edit: September 04, 2007, 09:26:04 pm by zanzibar »
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Duraza

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Re: Roleplay vs. powerlevelling
« Reply #70 on: September 04, 2007, 11:55:03 pm »
I do not understand how people think restricting skills and levels will prevent power leveling. It will just mean that these players will max out their character within the new system all the quicker and move on to the next character, maxing it in perhaps a different manner. So instead of having one character maxed out in all skills and stats they will have five maxed out, maybe differently or maybe the same, depending on how much variety they like.

People who like nothing more than skill/stat advancement will advance regardless of the end result. It may even serve to encourage them as their goal will be that much easier to accomplish.


In the end there is nothing that can end powerleveling. However there are ways to make it seem more like a simple use of game mechanics and closer to rp. I want the limitations to better rp ingame, feeling that the more the rp the less the power leveling. I think of powerleveling as someone who spends hours trying to rank the highest in every skill ingame. However thats not good for rp ingame. I'm not saying that you have to rp however limitations only increases rp chances while limiting the chances for people god-modding simply because game mechanics backs up their uber character. I also think limitations would better help ps's economy problems and make things a little more sensible. I know someone probably needs an example so I'll give one of a conversation (made up) of how the game is without limits.

Blacksmith: Hello sir, you look like a strong warrior, would you like to buy one of these swords I made? They are very high quality.
Uber character: Why should I buy one of your swords? Not only am I a master swordsman but I'm a master sword maker.
Miner: Your going to need some ore aren't you? How about you buy some of mine? I just mined it myself.
Uber character: I'm a master miner too. I don't need your ore when I can mine my own.
Herbalist: A warrior like you must need potions, perhaps I can make some for you?
Uber character: Please, I can make my own potions. Its so simple.

And so on and so on....In the end Uber character can master every aspect of the game. Firstly is it truely realistic for someone to be able to learn and master every trade? I mean people should always be able to master something but not everything. My idea was that instead of mastering everything you could have a max of like three things you could rank to max. Of course then everyone wants to be able to learn other things. Well it would still be possible but you couldn't master them. So for example lets say uber character instead was just a warrior-mage-miner. He could still make weapons but he would only be able to make low quality swords, if good enough maybe even shiny swords. However he wouldn't have the skill (nor would he ever) to make high quality swords or the uber blades. Maybe he can make potions but he wouldn't be able to make greater potions of healing, etc.

Secondly this system helps everyone make money without having to try and learn every trade. Since uber warrior can't make an uber sword he will need to buy one. Since uber blacksmith can make an uber sword, just not wield it because he isn't strong enough, he will need to sell his sword. Uber warrior meets uber blacksmith and everyone is happy. You could replace that same example with many different "jobs" we are/will be able to preform. Uber warrior will be able to make money selling skins, claws, etc off of the many monsters only he can take down. In the end people will make money and still get what they need to play through other players instead of feeling the need to level every skill and rely on only themselves.

Lastly this would much better rp. Who wants to rp with uber character who can do anything? I much rather rp with uber warrior who still relys on other characters to help him because he can't do it all. Its very unreaslic when someone powerlevels every stat and then because game mechanics supports it they rp the same thing. However I wouldn't mind if game mechanics supported it as long as its immpossible to level every stat. I much prefer the idea of seeing uber warriors walk around instead of uber characters. Plus this will at least make others more tempted to not always be uber warrior or uber mage because they won't be able to do every single thing to its max.

Yes in the end people will make alternate characters to level, uber warrior will just make an uber blacksmith alt to give him uber swords, etc etc. However while I know there are people who will just make an endless sea of alts I also doubt that many will be tempted to do so. In the end someone's going to think, "Why bother making 6 characters for this game when there is that other MMORPG that I can make just one character, powerlevel, and have all my stats without the work of switching?" Yes not everyone's going to think that but either way this plan can only really help the game, its not hurting it because the problems with it are only things that can happen regardless.
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Xillix Queen of Fools

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Re: Roleplay vs. powerlevelling
« Reply #71 on: September 05, 2007, 12:16:24 am »
eventually we will change these things and long threads will arrive to tell us how wrong we were to do what you asked  \\o//

Roderyck Slywolfe

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Re: Roleplay vs. powerlevelling
« Reply #72 on: September 05, 2007, 12:36:12 am »
Personally, I see nothing wrong with the system as it is, as far as, PP's and money to rank up.

The easiest solution would be to separate combat and non-combat experience, for starters.

Then, limit the total ranks a player can have in Jobs. This way, as a player comes closer to mastering one field of expertise, the other areas have less growth potential. So, no player could master EVERY job.

Duraza

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Re: Roleplay vs. powerlevelling
« Reply #73 on: September 05, 2007, 12:39:30 am »
eventually we will change these things and long threads will arrive to tell us how wrong we were to do what you asked  \\o//

Yeah I know....thats what makes me afraid when I post something, the fear that later on many will hate me and I'll have to cover my face with a bag so I won't be attacked  :sweatdrop:
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Xillix Queen of Fools

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Re: Roleplay vs. powerlevelling
« Reply #74 on: September 05, 2007, 12:43:04 am »
thing is they wont blame you

who will they blame?