The Character Modeling and Skinning Art Project

[Ver]

And so the whiners can complain to high heaven. For each object in the game only one model and only one corresponding texture can be used -- they use the best. The few open doors to forum contributions I've seen had no one whining about their work not getting picked. The people that use this forum understand the integrity of the project's goals; contribution implies understanding that.

[Karyuu]

[...] you are sitting on a sea of untapped potential, if your recent item modeling/icons project is any indication [...]

I disagree, actually. There are talented artists in the community, but I can count the ones who are consistently good so far on one hand. This sea of untapped potential isn't as wide nor powerful as you may believe it to be, although I mean no insult to anyone. We do look for a certain quality, and for the most part it is difficult to find in contributions, especially in anything above items/icons. The contests and contribution opportunities I offer here are to let players try their hand at small assets and learn in the process.

No one has so far created anything complex that I have accepted into the official client. Each and every time someone offers me a character model, I give them a full back-and-forth analysis of where they need to improve, and each and every time the final decision is "You will need more practice."

[Ver]

That sounds ridiculous, Karyuu. Every single contribution to the recent Item Mesh/Texture Submission thread was characteristic of a high-quality model (most with less than 150 faces) with a high-quality finished texture. Most of those submissions were at least as good as what's already in-game, and some were better.

And this is even besides the fact that there is no requirement to have all the submissions at 100% -- your art team would have a vast array of less than AAA submissions to use as "templates" where they could go back and nip and tuck where it would immediately raise it to acceptable level.

The predicable result of this model would be a much faster rate of development coupled with slightly lower final graphics quality overall. But anything beats a 2019 release date.

[Karyuu]

No, not every single contribution in that thread was of the right quality I can tell you that honestly and immediately. Also note the amount of people who have participated in that thread so far - like I said, I can count the consistently talented artists on one hand.

Why do you ignore my point about character models that people have tried to contribute to me? So far, none of them have come close to the standard we need, and I am not going to lower that standard, nor am I going to use "placeholder art." From now on as I work with the art department, everything created is meant to be as final an asset as possible. Anything else is wasted time.

[Dihenis]

even if i was professional about one time they were accepting models, i probably wouldn't be quite so calm if i were rejected 50 times in favor of rast (which by the way i already acknowledge rast is better than me). i might say they were picking favorites, and i'm pretty sure others would, considering some people now, which would lead to more locked threads, then threads that say "you never let us say anything, i thought you wanted our input" and those would go sour, get locked, and this forum would be dead eventually. sure this probably won't happen, but i think its just better the way it is now.

this needs Waylander's diclaimer: Some players(/people) are great

[Ver]

Character models are understandably the most difficult of all to create. There's a huge gap between them and those recent items/icons (all of which looked to be of finished quality by my estimation), like buildings, trees, and terrain. Let the gap be filled and judge accordingly.

I never suggested "placeholder art", which is always bad for a project.

Dihenis: I've seen game projects with open art contribution, and they never devolved into the mess you described.

[Karyuu]

If we have something that we think the community can do for us, we will offer it. However, right now the art team is working on content that neither can be revealed to the community, nor added onto by the community. And this content is our first and most important priority. I have the bare minimum of time lately to dedicate to internal issues, and much less for outside contributions. Our time is always limited, and if I must spend a good chunk of it going over outside contributions that don't meet our quality standards, I'm wasting that time. I'd much rather use what I have to finish what I know we need first.

Regardless, people are always welcome to discuss contributions with me and suggest a model they would like to create. If we can put it to use and if I know the artist is capable, I will say so and help him/her out with modeling, texturing, etc. I have done this on numerous occasions. (Terrain and level design however is out of the question - too much depends on it to be handled outside the team, like connection to previous maps, assets, settings material, etc.)

[Dihenis]

yes i was exaggerating. i was trying to stress the point that i think opening up the art part would bring about more negatives than positives. and then they would end up with an even more complicated liscence if they did let us add to it, because they don't want people to take their art.
(sorry i don't know how to spell liscence)

[Ver]

I can't know the situation as it is currently within the PS development team...no one that isn't on the team knows either. If your current structure works well for you, keep it. If the next CB release version is after this time next month, something has to give. If Steel Blue isn't here by this time next year something has to give. Or you may have to discard the entire "Blue" version naming structure (which calls for a full seven more milestone versions after this one) if 1.0 will release within at any time in the near future. Anything slower than a new release every one or two months pushes the project back into the void.

[Karyuu]

Why are you so hung up on developing fasterfasterfaster? This is something we do because we have fun doing it, during our free time. If it takes us 10 years to reach 1.0, I really don't care. I'm in this project not to whip out content as fast as possible, but to enjoy the process and yes, take my time if needed. We have new client releases every two months or so, and this is a pace we find comfortable. There is no going "back into the void," whatever the heck that means. Just because our pace is slower than that of commercial projects doesn't mean that we're dying or stagnating or that we'll never accomplish anything or never get finished. Frankly I find this attitude boring and tiring.

[Ver]

I'm not hung on up having it out "fasterfasterfaster". Do you have a picture in your mind of what PS could like like at 1.0? Statistically, though, its axiomatic that the longer unbudgeted software projects go without their gamma release, the more the entire project drifts apart and eventually dissipates. The project must have a defined goals for its final form. Then each individual update should be one more small progression towards that goal.

The project mgith collapse under its own weight if it has to go on for five more years. Ten is unthinkable (you'd have t change the engine more than once).

[Karyuu]

We have a goal for every single release we put out. We have a goal for 0.4 as well, and we have a Master Plan. Why would you assume that we don't, and are just drifting aimlessly through a sea of assets?

PlaneShift has been in 3D form since early 2001 - that's six years already, and we show absolutely no signs of stopping. Instead this project is stronger than it has ever been, and picking up speed all the time.

[Ver]

It's at a respectable pace, yes. But Molecular Blue didn't take as long as Crystal Blue and that was extremely more basic than Crystal Blue.

When is 0.4 (Steel Blue) coming out?

With Crystal Blue we finally see the game beginning to stand on its own two feet and some features are even looking nearly finished at this point. So future releases should not take nearly as long...perhaps a year each. I think the 0.7 thru 1.0 (the beta period IIRC) should probably only have to take a year total.

No, I don't want things being rushed. Yes, I'm concerned about the conceptual ridiculousness of going through as many years until 1.0 release as we've had up to now since the beginning of Atomic Blue in 2001. Planeshift could practically attain a Guinness record for longest development cycle of a single game project prior to release if that were the case.

By the way, the game runs incredibly slow proportional to its graphical quality...I get less than 10 fps in the Death Realm and Hydlaa. It's also a horrific RAM hog. And yes, I meet or surpass all system requirements. How is the engine going to improve?

[Karyuu]

This is no longer an art issue and I'm growing disinterested. For engine related topics, contact Vengeance or Acraig.

[Ver]

So you're aware of the engine speed? It's actually been keeping me from playing recently.

Answer the questions if you know the answer, here and for the prior post.