Octarchal Auction (Discussion)

[Zan]

*Disclaimer: This is going to be very sensitive content but I'm writing here only because I want to see things improve, not to start any attacks or immature whining.

To be honest I was rather disappointed by the way this auction was handled in-game. Since it got announced in the roleplaying board this time I assumed it would at least be some worthwhile event. Instead it turned out to be an amateuristic half IC/half OOC auction which could have been handled better in several aspects.

My main disappointment is that the GM's are supposed to give us all a good example when it comes to roleplaying but I've seen many player run auctions being handled much, much better than this one.

I'll make a list of things I personally would have done differently, hoping that it'll be read before this thread gets out of hand and hoping even harder that it will be remembered for the next time.

1. Provide some protection at least. This is an auction being held by the Vigesimi's son, in which there will be biddings for millions of tria. Obviously the gathered crowd has huge amounts of money on them but all I spotted was one single guard. Would it have been that hard to either move the auction to a more secured place or at least spawn some NPC guards in the vicinity? I was surprised it didn't turn into a bloodbath right away, knowing the amount of criminals that roams around in the city.

2. Interact with the rest of the players. I've seen players who were discontent (for reasons that are included in this post as well as others) have their characters throw rotten fruit at the auctioneer, others shouted their discontent publically but all in a decent roleplaying fashion. They were simply ignored until it got too bad, when the guard present gave them a warning. Personally I would have called the guards, cancelled the auction and arrested anyone I'd even suspect of trouble when someone threw rotten tomatoes at my head.
I know that a big event like this isn't easy to handle and it's not so obvious that we can take everything into account but I feel that there was a lot ignored which harmed the feeling of immersion and roleplaying atmosphere.

3. Why do we have an auction channel? The entire auction happened in shouts and apparently according to lag a large part of it was lost in between the casual chat. We have separate tabs to keep these things apart. I don't understand why they weren't used. If you want to argue for realism sake, then I have to disagree. My brain allows me to concentrate on a specific source of sound and drown out all background chatter easily. I see the separate tabs as a similar mechanic.

4. Talad wanting to be at his own auction I can definitely understand but the way he did it was rather confusing and again harmed the roleplaying atmosphere. For starters a character with the name Talad Priest is not only directly against the naming policy but considering that only the first name shows up in chat, it made me think that Talad himself came down among the mortals to speak his mind. Interfering with the auction in a clearly OOC manner in main chat without bothering to use brackets afterwards didn't quite help either. I can understand that the urgency made him ignore his own guidelines but still ... I wonder if it couldn't have been handled better?
I would have prefered it if Talad took control over another character that was more in place or watched and orchestrated everything from behind the scenes. I know he is very busy with the creation of this game and he has done a great job so far. But I always thought of Talad as an advocate of roleplay and what I've seen in this event was anything but advocating good roleplay.

... after this I left the auction but from what I understood a lot of players planned an IC revolt against the way these auctions are handled.

Personally I disagree with trying to handle an OOC problem IC and chose to come here to voice my issues. I wish I also had something positive to say about this event but to be honest, it was one of the worser auctions I attended. However I hope that my criticism won't be a cause to give up and instead helps towards making the next events better. We're all learning here and I'm certain that some people underestimate the difficulties of organizing something like this, especially when you have a lot of work waiting on you.

I'll try to be at the next one and hopefully I'll enjoy it more then.

[steuben]

though the values paid for the houses only goes to show that there is far too much tria in circulation. i was hearing values of 16.6 million for the pair. and i doubt that it trained out the coffers of those that bought them.

[Waylander]

2. Interact with the rest of the players. I've seen players who were discontent (for reasons that are included in this post as well as others) have their characters throw rotten fruit at the auctioneer, others shouted their discontent publically but all in a decent roleplaying fashion. They were simply ignored until it got too bad, when the guard present gave them a warning. Personally I would have called the guards, cancelled the auction and arrested anyone I'd even suspect of trouble when someone threw rotten tomatoes at my head.
I know that a big event like this isn't easy to handle and it's not so obvious that we can take everything into account but I feel that there was a lot ignored which harmed the feeling of immersion and roleplaying atmosphere.

I agree completely with point 1 and 4, though I don't believe 4 matters much but, I disagree with point 3, the auction tab is simply there to make it easier for players to sell items day to day.  So that they don't have to start auctions every few hours.  I liked seeing it in /shout more, gave a more realistic feel, in my opinion.  But again, that's just my opinion.

Your second point I find the most interesting.  I agree with what you said but, would like to expand on it.  Those that went against the law should be punished.  Assaults on the Vigesimi should surely be true death, as with on his guard.  Though, I don't expect to see these carried out, I would like to see some form of punishment.  A fine, perhaps?

[ThomPhoenix]

Both houses were sold for 7 million. The second one to the Felines Lair so they got what they wanted. Despite that some players are revolting against the Vigesimi right now. Quite funny.

And I agree with your points, Zan.

[miadon]

I agree there were a number of issues I disliked, some of which you mentioned, the ammount people were betting bugged me too, as it only went so high because these are the first few houses to be sold in terms of gameplay so OOC issues are increasing the price. But interms of IC there have always been houses sold off and is nothing new to our characters. People should be thinking what would "their character" pay for this house not because THEY want it. Then again you could counter argue it that the two houses in question were very very rich houses, gold decorations in it.

But the auctioneer didn't really say anything about the homes. Then again even if he had said the house is in poor condition and needs alot of repair, people would still bet their millions.

[Xillix Queen of Fools]

I frankly feel put off that you would take issue.

I did Roleplay

I did address the hecklers.

I did tell the history of the houses and why they were being sold.

order was maintained.

The event was IC

The time i put into this now feels wasted so thank you for your wonderful unsolicited critique.

Players, who have unlimited time could probably do a better auction, np with that.

I will do no more work on ps this day.

[Waylander]

But the auctioneer didn't really say anything about the homes. Then again even if he had said the house is in poor condition and needs alot of repair, people would still bet their millions.

There was quite a bit of "This house is worth more", "The value of the house is higher" so I wouldn't say that.

And thought the devs didn't put on the -perfect- auction.  As I agreed to earlier.  It was well done and if anybody made it disappointing, it would be the players who seem to have completely neglected the settings and decided "I want to be outraged".

[zanzibar]

2. Interact with the rest of the players. I've seen players who were discontent (for reasons that are included in this post as well as others) have their characters throw rotten fruit at the auctioneer, others shouted their discontent publically but all in a decent roleplaying fashion. They were simply ignored until it got too bad, when the guard present gave them a warning. Personally I would have called the guards, cancelled the auction and arrested anyone I'd even suspect of trouble when someone threw rotten tomatoes at my head.
I know that a big event like this isn't easy to handle and it's not so obvious that we can take everything into account but I feel that there was a lot ignored which harmed the feeling of immersion and roleplaying atmosphere.

As far as the fruit goes:  When players godmode like that, I don't think they have the right to expect recognition.  You can't do something to someone else's character without their consent, whether it's dueling them, stomping on their feet, punching them in the face, spitting on them, or throwing rotten fruit at them.

4. Talad wanting to be at his own auction I can definitely understand but the way he did it was rather confusing and again harmed the roleplaying atmosphere. For starters a character with the name Talad Priest is not only directly against the naming policy but considering that only the first name shows up in chat, it made me think that Talad himself came down among the mortals to speak his mind. Interfering with the auction in a clearly OOC manner in main chat without bothering to use brackets afterwards didn't quite help either. I can understand that the urgency made him ignore his own guidelines but still ... I wonder if it couldn't have been handled better?

You have to remember that Talad comes from the "old guard" of the dev team.  They did things differently 'back in the day'.

I frankly feel put off that you would take issue.

I know that you're a volounteer and so it's not unexpected for you to feel resentment from time to time, but this is why the forums are here.  To give you feedback.  To help you do what you do better and to provide you with new ways of looking at things.  To be blunt, I think it's inappropriate for you to express such feelings here.

[Zan]

I'm sorry you feel offended Xillix, I did my best not to offend anyone.

The time put into this whole thing was definitely not a waste, it was a learning experience and I wrote this in the hope to add to the learning experience.

I also agree with Waylander that a lot of players themselves put on a very disappointing performance. Both the bids and the reason for 'revolting' were based on OOC foundations. Asking the players to roleplay better is something I try all the time but it rarely rubs off.  I definitely don't expect anyone to listen to me when they're being blinded by such a grand prize. The whole situation is just OOC, which is without doubt the reason why making it into an IC event is so hard. The huge stress that the server was put under with this event didn't help either, clearly a lot of words were lost due to lag and controling the situation completely was probably impossible for the few Devs/GMs involved.

Xillix, I hope you can come back here in a few days after everyone's tempers have calmed and read this as the advice I wanted to give.


Zanzi, I'm not sure what happened after I left but while I was there I saw no godmodding ... the worst I saw was "/me throws a rotten tomato towards the auctioneer". If that's godmodding then I'm at a loss here. Nobody said anything about hitting them in the face or whatever, all they did was throw, something any normal person can do. If they actually went further than that and started telling the consequences of their attempts as well then I agree completely, it's out of line and should be ignored.

[Durwyn]

I frankly feel put off that you would take issue.

I did Roleplay

I did address the hecklers.

I did tell the history of the houses and why they were being sold.

order was maintained.

The event was IC

The time i put into this now feels wasted so thank you for your wonderful unsolicited critique.

Players, who have unlimited time could probably do a better auction, np with that.

I will do no more work on ps this day.

so hard words during your birthday    how the players are rude with you 

[Xillix Queen of Fools]

zanzi, to be blunt you can kiss my 

Zan your points are not lost on me, but much of what you said was just untrue. As noted.

[Donari Tyndale]

I admit I am responsible for some of the bad behaviour from the player side. I even admit godmodding. Yes, I did godmod. But that was after Donari was lifted in the air by some "spell" and fell to the ground and died. Now, since murder is nothing a guard of the vigesimi would commit, I decided to do it like them. I started to godmod as well. I know this is no excuse, and I am ashamed of my bad roleplay. I better should not roleplay if I am pissed off with something... I especially feel sorry for Xillix, since it is his birthday.
However, the little "revolt" was, in my opinion, correct. I'd like to quote a phrase:

"We make reality, and in our reality, Felines Lair owns that house"

Felines Lair roleplayed to own that house, and no one said anything against it. They put much of their time into the roleplay concerning the ownership of this house. They did NOT, as the vigesimi's son claimed, rent that house and their landlord died. In the eyes of any character that knows that Felines Lair owns this house, this can not be right, even though the law is on side of the vigesimi. So we decided to speak out against the vigesimi. However, the reaction of the Devs was more then inappropriate. Killing someone that speaks out against the vigesimi? I do not think that was good roleplay. Yes, I know that "You can not claim to own a house officially.". Houses are supposed to be tested, so why can't they be tested for free? It would not have been so difficult to hand Felines Lair a set of keys, without an auction. It would have been a loss to the roleplaying community if Felines Lair lost their guildhouse, which they roleplayed to own for quite a bit.

Sorry again for my behaviour.

[Feline Prince]

It's really nothing to worry about. Both houses that guilds have RPed ownership of they have retained that. You have to understand that because the players accepted this ownership that their characters would h ave seen the people trying to turf the guilds out as forces of evil. Now, what would have been nice is if the Devs had talked to the guilds in question and came up with a good reason why and auction would take place, and I'm sure the guilds would have collaborated because its only a game, right?

[Waylander]

The roleplay community would have survived and giving them the house would:

1) Show favoritism, it would.  You may not have complained but, many of the community would have.

2) Wouldn't have addressed the millions of tria too many in the community.  Granted, this has probably made more players collect tria but, it's more evenly dispersed.


PS: Was going to edit my yoda talk there in point 1 but I rather like it.

[Duraza]

Sounds like a lot of stuff happened...almost wish I could be there.

I can't really comment on anything specific without telling one person's side of the story (which every well may be a lie) so I'll just say this. If the players revolted against the Vigesmi's son (or whoever it was) thats IC if they had the right reason. Maybe something along the lines of

"First they try to sell Lolitra's home now the one which belongs to Felines Lair! This is an outrage! I don't care what they say happened its not right without giving them the chance to pay for it first!"

Something like that would be appropriate IC justification, at least in my mind. Don't know what their IC justification was. As for the parts about them ignoring the thrown rotten fruits they could have missed the message from the lag. Maybe they responded but you missed their message. Maybe they assumed you missed but didn't type a message back. Maybe there was some god modding so they decided to ignore. There's to many possibilities of what could have happened for their to be a point of arguing about it.

As for that spell put on you Donari its nothing new....I've played in a few GM events, usually as an evil character trying to do anything to get the gm's to fail at their plot. They've done worst to me for fighting agaisnt them....Secondly if you did threaten goverment as mentioned before some kind of IC action would have to be taken. In that case the killing of a citizen was the action. Because the guard is a goverment official and you tried to harm an important member of the goverment it makes sense that your punishment would be harsh.

It would have been a loss to the roleplaying community if Felines Lair lost their guildhouse, which they roleplayed to own for quite a bit.

Out of many things I think I disagree with this point the most. I did when people felt the same about Lolitra losing her house. Its not a loss to the roleplaying community. Its a chance to build. If Felines Lair just decided to give up because they ICly lost their home then it would be a total loss. However if instead they were to take IC action, I think it would only make a greater role play. I personally think it would be intresting to see how their characters, and even guild might change because of an IC action by the goverment. The fact is, this is supposed to be a world. Bad things happen as well as good things. However many people always want everything to have a happy ending, to work the way they want it and the way its always worked. That's not the way things should go. It only restricts rp when you refuse to allow change and get mad oocly when change occurs.

In the end I'm sure a lot of things could have gone better overall for this auction. I think that an auction for the houses may not be the best way currently. However I'm guessing many of the players acted just like they did during the previous auction which also does not help things. If you want it to get better you have to work with the devs, not against them  . Not saying anyone did work against them but it sounds like not everyone was trying to help....As I said I wasn't there so I really can't comment.