Author Topic: Octarchal Auction (Discussion)  (Read 6992 times)

zanzibar

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Re: Octarchal Auction (Discussion)
« Reply #45 on: September 12, 2007, 12:42:31 am »
It's not about how easy it is to understand.
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Immaturity is FTW.

Induane

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Re: Octarchal Auction (Discussion)
« Reply #46 on: September 12, 2007, 03:09:47 am »
To that end its more about maintaining a degree of professionalism.

Really, I don't want to get into debates about this, I always end up roped in near the end, thinking I have something useful to contribute, but the way statements of dissatisfaction are regarded these days I'm not sure there is any point.  Kudos to Zan for standing up and making a statement in the face of such a difficult crowd :)  Whether his points were right or wrong he did it the correct way and politely in my opinion.  His points were well stated and explained.  This is far better than the usual "MonS3R$ d0n't give enourh XP U d3vz suk!" and as such I think the replies should have all taken as much care to be professional and courteous.

I know now that Xillix was tired with that first post but to me that is a good example of how such a response should not be carried out.  Doing settings work myself now (Scary thought I know) I understand a bit more that perspective. Its difficult when you put effort into something, and think you've done well and that your work should be appreciated, when you find yourself being criticized sharply for an accomplishment.  My first instinct is to try to defend my position, etc, and sometimes thats the way I (incorrectly) react.  In retrospect in many of these situations I was not always correct and would have better served myself and what I was working on had I considered the possibility that I was wrong.  I look to examples like that first post of how not to handle similar situations myself.  As a developer/team member the whole is often judged by the actions of the more vocal members, or by simple actions of one person and its hard to do but I try to keep in mind that I not only represent myself but am a representative of the team I work for and as such should carry myself in the light in which I would like to see our team perceived. 

It is my opinion that that attitude was very dismissive and it is also my opinion that that is the worse possible way to handle critique. 

Dihenis

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Re: Octarchal Auction (Discussion)
« Reply #47 on: September 12, 2007, 03:14:01 am »
i completely agree with induane, *repeat induane's post

zan even included a disclaimer at the top of his post

Quote
*Disclaimer: This is going to be very sensitive content but I'm writing here only because I want to see things improve, not to start any attacks or immature whining.

« Last Edit: September 12, 2007, 03:17:28 am by Dihenis »


zanzibar

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Re: Octarchal Auction (Discussion)
« Reply #48 on: September 12, 2007, 04:11:07 am »
I know now that Xillix was tired with that first post but to me that is a good example of how such a response should not be carried out.  Doing settings work myself now (Scary thought I know) I understand a bit more that perspective. Its difficult when you put effort into something, and think you've done well and that your work should be appreciated, when you find yourself being criticized sharply for an accomplishment.  My first instinct is to try to defend my position, etc, and sometimes thats the way I (incorrectly) react.  In retrospect in many of these situations I was not always correct and would have better served myself and what I was working on had I considered the possibility that I was wrong.  I look to examples like that first post of how not to handle similar situations myself.  As a developer/team member the whole is often judged by the actions of the more vocal members, or by simple actions of one person and its hard to do but I try to keep in mind that I not only represent myself but am a representative of the team I work for and as such should carry myself in the light in which I would like to see our team perceived. 

It is my opinion that that attitude was very dismissive and it is also my opinion that that is the worse possible way to handle critique. 
I'll agree, and I'll go a step further with it.  There are people who see the work they do for Planeshift as their art, and of those there are people who can't handle criticism of their creative works.  After all, it's their art.  What right does anyone have to be critical of it?  And this is what then happens.
Quote from: Raa
Immaturity is FTW.

Xillix Queen of Fools

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Re: Octarchal Auction (Discussion)
« Reply #49 on: September 12, 2007, 05:05:12 pm »
I think I do a more than fair job of representing myself and the team as a whole. We all have bad days and I am still permitted them. I have told Zan that his points were not lost on me.

Induane, I am sure that you do not think these thoughts are unique to your new found perspective.

I may be too sensitive to always respond well, but I am actively representing the team by being present by being accessible.

Live action grammar and spelling will remain more difficult for some and I think it is fair to expect lenience.


Xordan

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Re: Octarchal Auction (Discussion)
« Reply #50 on: September 12, 2007, 05:49:09 pm »
Personally I want practical solutions to problems presented, not people pointing out the same problems over and over again and expecting (demanding often) us to magically fix them overnight. Maybe people don't always say that in words, but that's the attitude and it's a crap one to have to take. I'm surprised that Xillix has put up with it for so long, I know I won't and so I don't spend much time here or bother reading many threads. Xillix does a good job and you're lucky that he spends the time and effort to try and listen to players.

bilbous

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Re: Octarchal Auction (Discussion)
« Reply #51 on: September 12, 2007, 05:57:54 pm »
Maybe the developers should invent a common language for the PS world and insist on its usage in game, outlawing any other so that all participants will have the same linguistic disadvantage. Either that or hire an expert grammarian team to patrol the streets and ticket poor spellers and grammar usage. I doubt that anyone, native English speaker or not, gets spelling and grammar right 100% of the time. People do what they can and those who complain about it excessively exhibit little other than snobbery or cultural imperialism.

eldoth_terevan

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Re: Octarchal Auction (Discussion)
« Reply #52 on: September 12, 2007, 06:18:30 pm »
I associate the type of abuse that I see the devs getting on this forum with a PAYING job. People just won't stop...

bilbous

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Re: Octarchal Auction (Discussion)
« Reply #53 on: September 12, 2007, 06:24:17 pm »
Someone is paying them to abuse the devs? :@#\

Ironically enough, my somewhat intolerant previous comment was intended to promote tolerance as were the two X's comments, I think.

Just so you know...

zanzibar

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Re: Octarchal Auction (Discussion)
« Reply #54 on: September 12, 2007, 08:05:02 pm »
I think I do a more than fair job of representing myself and the team as a whole. We all have bad days and I am still permitted them.
That's just it, Xillix.  You aren't permitted them.


Personally I want practical solutions to problems presented, not people pointing out the same problems over and over again and expecting (demanding often) us to magically fix them overnight.
I don't see what's so hard or impractical about not using smilies in open IC chat.


Maybe the developers should invent a common language for the PS world and insist on its usage in game, outlawing any other so that all participants will have the same linguistic disadvantage. Either that or hire an expert grammarian team to patrol the streets and ticket poor spellers and grammar usage. I doubt that anyone, native English speaker or not, gets spelling and grammar right 100% of the time. People do what they can and those who complain about it excessively exhibit little other than snobbery or cultural imperialism.
Impractical.  The common language is English.  There are OOC reasons people have difficulties with it.  A grammar team would only cause trouble while accomplishing nothing.  The complaints have less to do with command of the english language and more to do with its application.


I associate the type of abuse that I see the devs getting on this forum with a PAYING job. People just won't stop...
The devs don't get abused in any serious way.  The kids who say "I want everything and I want it yesterday!" are a joke.  The problem is that volounteers have a tendency to develope a sense of entitlement and they become extra sensistive to criticism.  They're thinking, "Hey, I don't need to be doing this and I'm not getting paid for it, so no one is allowed to tell me I could be doing better than I am!"  It's simply not true.  When you volounteer for something, you're committing to a project or cause or ideal, and you committ yourself to the full package of whatever it entails.

If ever a volounteer resents his work, he should quit.  A resentful volounteer is simply getting high off of a sense of superiority.




Quote from: Raa
Immaturity is FTW.

bilbous

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Re: Octarchal Auction (Discussion)
« Reply #55 on: September 12, 2007, 08:17:44 pm »
@Zanzibar Of course my idea was impractical but so is the perfection of performance (grammar, spelling &etc.) that you and some others seem to expect.

By the way it is spelled volunteer not
Quote
volounteer
but then maybe this is just a signal that your whole complaint is not meant to be taken seriously. Is that it? Are you ragging on them in jest? It is hard to tell sometimes without proper vocal inflections.

zanzibar

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Re: Octarchal Auction (Discussion)
« Reply #56 on: September 12, 2007, 08:34:32 pm »
@Zanzibar Of course my idea was impractical but so is the perfection of performance (grammar, spelling &etc.) that you and some others seem to expect.
So you think people should be allowed to talk in 1337?  That's what people complain the most about.  Using smilies in open chat is a more minor thing.

By the way it is spelled volunteer not
Quote
volounteer
but then maybe this is just a signal that your whole complaint is not meant to be taken seriously. Is that it? Are you ragging on them in jest? It is hard to tell sometimes without proper vocal inflections.
If it wasn't for the attention you've paid to my spelling, it would seem like you aren't reading my posts.:)
Quote from: Raa
Immaturity is FTW.

Xillix Queen of Fools

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Re: Octarchal Auction (Discussion)
« Reply #57 on: September 12, 2007, 09:21:57 pm »
I do not intend to have you telling me how or what to post. Go back to charging people to cross the bridge troll boy.

acraig

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Re: Octarchal Auction (Discussion)
« Reply #58 on: September 12, 2007, 09:22:35 pm »
Thread fails...

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neko kyouran

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Re: Octarchal Auction (Discussion)
« Reply #59 on: September 12, 2007, 11:50:04 pm »
I've always been particularly fond of this one my self: