Anti-Powerleveler Idea

[zanzibar]

Why do people here keep going on about "powerleveling"? How does it affect your experience in the game? People like to level up, if that is how they want to play their game who are you to say they can't do that? Is all levelling "power-levelling"? This is a GAME, people like to do things in games, such as levelling up.

It is not disturbing at all on it's own ... which is also one of the points Zanzi is trying to make, I think. There is nothing wrong with powerleveling as a concept, the problem lies with the translation to roleplaying. Powerlevelers want to be the best at everything, they play with the goal of getting that next skill level. Usually this means roleplay is neglected or completely ignored ... nothing the Devs can do about that really. It is disruptive for us RPers though. But what they can do is making the system of leveling more RP oriented. Getting rid of numbers is one way to do that.

It won't get rid of powerlevelers ... but it will force them to talk about their skills as "I'm still poor at mining." or "I'm a master swordsman."

Ah Zan, my first half.

[bilbous]

Hmm it would seem the power levelers are common in real life. All you have to do is look at the muscle head who spends six hours a day weight training in the gym to try to be the next Mr. Universe or the musician that spend 10 hours in the studio practicing various instruments. The difference with the in-game power levelers is that in real life there is enough time for the muscle head to master an instrument or the musician  solve Fermi's Last Theorem or whatever combination you like. Certainly such a renaissance man type is possible in real life and is exceptional but characters in the game are supposed to be exceptional to begin with.

[zanzibar]

Hmm it would seem the power levelers are common in real life. All you have to do is look at the muscle head who spends six hours a day weight training in the gym to try to be the next Mr. Universe or the musician that spend 10 hours in the studio practicing various instruments. The difference with the in-game power levelers is that in real life there is enough time for the muscle head to master an instrument or the musician  solve Fermi's Last Theorem or whatever combination you like. Certainly such a renaissance man type is possible in real life and is exceptional but characters in the game are supposed to be exceptional to begin with.

Are these characters acting within the settings?  Are they RPing a character, or are they simply trying to be the best at everything?  What does it mean to be an exceptional person?  How can we allow people to be exceptional and yet still keep the game sane and the characters specialized?  These are the questions you need to think about.

[Lolitra, Celorrim Purrty Twins]

Actually, my tu'penny piece [wow showing my age] is that I think hiding the stats behind words like 'trainee swordsman/woman' and 'Master Mage' etc is quite a good idea if it means that others will discuss their skills in that way-

Me ; I am only a trainee swordswoman, So I am seeking the 'red Sash' trainer, do you know where he is?
Him ; um no, but I know where the 'yellow shash' trainer is, he might be able to help...

and so on and so forth....

and your ability to judge anothers ability should be related to your preceptive ability... [if that makes any sense at all to you hehe]

It won't get rid of levellers per-say but is may integrate them more?

[Feline Prince]

Hmm it would seem the power levelers are common in real life. All you have to do is look at the muscle head who spends six hours a day weight training in the gym to try to be the next Mr. Universe or the musician that spend 10 hours in the studio practicing various instruments. The difference with the in-game power levelers is that in real life there is enough time for the muscle head to master an instrument or the musician  solve Fermi's Last Theorem or whatever combination you like. Certainly such a renaissance man type is possible in real life and is exceptional but characters in the game are supposed to be exceptional to begin with.

People in gyms don't say 'I'm 47 at body development' they say 'I bench pressed 40Kg today'. Much the same way you would expect miners to say 'I hauled 32 good ores today' as aposed to saying 'I have 5 in mining'. With the focus being on the levels its going to bring in powerlevelers, not roleplayers. Though you may not think the saying the amount of ores is a good example... Yilakum is a capital society isn't it? There will always be money hoarding as it is realistic anyway.

[theirah]

there are people who want to be the best at everything in real life, you know.

[zanzibar]

there are people who want to be the best at everything in real life, you know.

I don't see how that's relevant.

[theirah]

oops, didnt see the second page.

but what I meant was, even when role-playing, there are people who want to role-play someone who constantly wants to improve themselves, because those kinds of people exist in the world. We encourage it in real life, so why do we discourage it when role-playing? Theres nothing wrong with wanting to be the best, and working hard for it.

[Velh Krome]

"Powerlevellers" isnt used for people rping to increase their skills by levelling. Of course you can go and roleplay your fighter and improve him there.
But annoying, for me that is, are people who dont rp at all, but all the time only run around levelling. Thats still not what bothers me, but if those people then go and shout around stuff in ic-manner although its fully ooc.
Take info from the server-stats page for instance, or some saying in main in brackets that get used by them taken as ic at some other place.

I for one had a time I was so much upset by certain behaviour of certain people, pure powerlevellers, that I was very close to leave PS once and for all. The entire atmosphere was screwed. There was no sense in figuring any rp-plans, because I all the time had to keep in mind that also those "oocers" may involve themselves.
Finally I calmed down and just decided to ignore them completely. Its not easy, neither nice: Last time I declined partaking an rp when I heard one of those guys were involved.
Just closing my eyes from problems is not a satisfying solution at all, but good enough to instead focus on things still worth to stick with PS and enjoy it.

What to do against it? Well, I read much about it in these forums here, and its really not easy, I even wonder if its possible at all by technical factors. How about setting a maximum amount for stats- respectively skill-levels summed up? That way one could become a masterly 3-ways magician, with only being able to max magic-relevant stats plus a bit more for agility or so. Or become a great fighter maxing weapon-skills and stats required. On the other hand, make your char to be an average allrounder. I didnt think about that idea too much, maybe its even suggested already. Not even sure how much would it be "anti-powerlevellers".

Cheers,
Velh

[theirah]

if the basic idea is that power-levelers are annoying role-players, and role players are annoying those who dont role-play as  seriously, then why not just split them? create a copy of yliakum, and have one side for serious role-players, and the other one for those who arent that serious about it. That way, you can limiit the amount of "powerlevelers" without changing the game drastically. those who do not wish to role play will naturally like to hang out around others like them, and the other way around as well.

[neko kyouran]

there are many many many many....... many threads about splitting the realm and every thread ends in, no, it won't happen.

[Duraza]

if the basic idea is that power-levelers are annoying role-players, and role players are annoying those who dont role-play as  seriously, then why not just split them? create a copy of yliakum, and have one side for serious role-players, and the other one for those who arent that serious about it. That way, you can limiit the amount of "powerlevelers" without changing the game drastically. those who do not wish to role play will naturally like to hang out around others like them, and the other way around as well.

While not all MMORPG's do pay attention to the RP part I think planeshift attempts to do so being a RP game. Making two different servers for rpers and for powerlevelers does not truely fix anything and goes against trying to make RP part of the game. Plus why make two different servers? No one is forced to rp and no one is forced to level. I think, after lots of these topics have been coming up, that the real problem is that there are players that disregard the feelings of others and kinda ruin the experience for others.

Levelers ignore that some people like rp, making the game a chat room, or even "go out of bounds" by taking role play too far. Examples of this are people who try to "bully" others into dueling, try to max every stat and act as if its realistic to be a master in doing so, or possibly something else. Mainly they either ignore rp as a total and do as they wish (pking, leet talk, etc) or they role play but try and make it hard for anyone who doesn't level as high as they do to rp with them. Sort of "you didn't take the time to max every stat like me so your not worth my time unless you want to duel and lose" if you get my drift.

At the same time rpers don't always take too kindly to levelers. Some make much fuss about OOC chatting though its possible one didn't know or forgot to use brakets. Some are a little too strict with rp as some players who do want to learn don't know as much and when they try to engage in rp they are ignored for its poor quality. Some levelers are great rpers and they don't "max" all their stats like other powerlevelers only the ones they plan to rp with. Then they meet a rper with no stats and lets say for example they get into a fight the rper, who only rp's his/her strengths, refuses to duel the leveler, who worked hard to get the few high stats he/she rps, making it hard for both players.

Yes this doesn't apply to everyone and yes there are exceptions to the rules and lastly there are probably more things I didn't mention. However if you think about it powerleveling isn't all thats to blame. If people want less leveling they have to help more newbies in understanding rp. Else you just think as you would for any other MMORPG and if thats what they think the game is is it their fault for not knowing? I'm sure you could argue both ways but instead we can try to teach as well. There will be players who refuse to be taught but there are rpers who refuse to level so there are people on both sides at wrong.

So to kinda draw that all to the topic of the anti-powerleveling idea I must say I do like some of the ideas thought up here. However i don't think we should be trying to think of ways to stop powerleveling. I more so think ideas on how to combine leveling elements with role playing is a better way to put it. The reason why is powerleveling isn't as "bad" as people make it for many have different reasons for doing it. What is bad is that role playing isn't as strong as leveling because the two aren't well mixed.

[Kaerli]

Duraza raised some excellent points, but to summarize what he said:  We need to find a way to balance RPing with game-mechanics (leveling).  For one, eliminate the OOC verbiage from the progression system.  Progression points and the concept of level as a number need to go.  A system of abstract ranks would be useful in place of it, and has been suggested several times before.  Tria-only training would place RP-ed jobs (Arnigus' banking job or Cila's newspaper business) on the same footing as what the game mechanics supports directly (fighting and crafting, mainly).  Also, we need to deal with the current ineptitude of the combat system, as it does not support the addition of detail through RP means to any reasonable extent.

[Durwyn]

If we got rid of the numbers

The idea of getting them out isnt new   
http://hydlaa.com/smf/index.php?topic=76.msg146#msg146

[Xillix Queen of Fools]

Convince Talad.