Author Topic: OOC information in your character profile as protection from harassment?  (Read 2944 times)

zanzibar

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As others have complained from time to time, it isn't unheard of for people to express out of game hatreds through actions that they try to pass as being in character.  It also isn't uncommon for such individuals to get their friends and guildmates on board with it, and it also isn't uncommon for alts to be used in the venture as well.  We've seen posts from people who were so affected by it that they were forced to rename or even restart their characters.

I think that once the "powerlevellers" are discouraged from the game, the maturity of the playerbase will increase and such things will be less heard of.  They won't disapear, trolls are just part of the scenery whenever you're on the internet, but they will be less heard of.

The question is:  To what extent can people use their character profiles to protect themselves from such harassment?
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Lolitra, Celorrim Purrty Twins

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Re: OOC information in your character profile as protection from harassment?
« Reply #1 on: September 17, 2007, 08:52:14 pm »
I would like to address this one as best I can, with the help of my husband.

Firstly - I think we aught to take out of the equation the term 'powerlevellers' as being a source of immaturity, as that is not factual.  Mature poeple like to level their characters too, and some younger gamers are quite happy just levelling without being a burden or harassment to others.

The issue is in the ability for people to seperate their gaming from their real life issues.  This does take some level of maturity and at times a form of 'thick skin', especially when they play a 'bad' or 'evil' style character that will of course get 'dissed' in character by other characters. 

One protection you have is to play consistantly, and overtly, not covertly.  To let others know who you are oocly and that your actions ic are not a reflection of you or your personal beliefs.  Also the minute you start to demonstrate occ comments on your description, you will pull to you like minded people this can be both good and bad...
The bad side of it is that if one uses ooc comments in their discription to bad-mouth [so to say] others, this causes bad feelings that are perpetuated and force people to take sides.  Which is only a human thing to do, it is rare for people to be impartial naturally.

The other is of course to use the mechanisms such as /ignore and /report when confronted by such behaviour.

As soon as the game tries to take on responsibility for the 'safety' of its playing community there lies a minefield of law that differs from country to country, and that would stop people from being able to be free with their imagination.

From another angle, if you have suffered and wish to come back but as another character name to avoid further harassement but don't wish to have to retrain - put a plea to the GM's and they -may- change your name for you.  [I can't be sure of this as I am not a GM].

To finish I will reitterate that we feel [that is my husband and I] that it is best to keep a clear line between what is Real Life and what is In Character and always take the time to remind others of your line... and encourage them to adopt such a line also.

There are so many other arguments for and against anonymity in game...  but essentially you should remember this is a game.





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zanzibar

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Re: OOC information in your character profile as protection from harassment?
« Reply #2 on: September 17, 2007, 09:18:14 pm »
I'm afraid that good characters and innocent people are often the victim of harassment as well.

I think it's wrong to simply tell people to grow a thick skin.  This is akin to blaming the victim.

/report doesn't work on all forms of harassment.

/ignore doesn't prevent a person from trashing your reputation, nor does it protect against the alts of that person, nor does it help to inform others of the lies the offender has been telling about you.

Name changes show up on buddy lists.  Even if you start up a brand new character, there's no guarantee the harassment won't start up again.

Quote
To finish I will reitterate that we feel [that is my husband and I] that it is best to keep a clear line between what is Real Life and what is In Character and always take the time to remind others of your line... and encourage them to adopt such a line also.
I'm sorry, but perhaps you didn't read my post closely enough.  We're talking about in game, OOC harassment from people with OOC hatreds.
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Lolitra, Celorrim Purrty Twins

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Re: OOC information in your character profile as protection from harassment?
« Reply #3 on: September 17, 2007, 11:05:53 pm »
We read your post carefully.  We understand what was written. 

As I wrote, there is little you can actually do about online harassment appart from reporting, and blocking.  You behaviour with others will always hold stead against flagrant bouts of mud slinging, unless you follow suit and do the same in retalliation - for all you do then is become no better than they are.

Most OOC harassment starts from misunderstandings where IC and OOC are not clearly defined at the start.  The other sort of harassment is generated by people who are so deep into their prejudices and preconceived ideals in the world that there is little one can do about there behaviour and attitude in game - apart from report them to the GM's and hope they are banned.

The statement 'I am afraid that good characters and innocent people are often the victim of harassment as well.' is odd...  as that goes without saying - however some are not so innocent and perpetuate the situation by reacting in a similar way.  The best way is not to react so, but to distance oneself from the instigator - and report them for such behaviour.

With regards to /report not working on all forms of harassment - that lies with how you report, and how you prove your case.

/ignore is only a means to distance yourself from them.   Sadly we live in a society that allows free speach, and as I said - people naturally take sides.  The only way do counter that is not to engage in slander.  And if you hear other slandering someone, challenge them to stop it, as they would not like it done about them - if they reply - 'but he started it' or 'he does it about me' that only shows their true colours and lack of maturity.

and finally, you say "I'm sorry, but perhaps you didn't read my post closely enough.  We're talking about in game, OOC harassment from people with OOC hatreds."

I was too...  but I, rather than concentrate on their behaviour that is appalling, I chose to write about how to help prevent tarnishing of yours by your own actions.   

I go back to reporting - if you don't report them for ooc behaviour that is 'racist' or 'otherwise abusive' and can be proved as ooc they will just get away with it...   for if you get to hear about the lies, someone somewhere has perpetuated the situation by repeating it, exaggerating it, twisting it more - they are just as bad as those who started it, if not worse for allowing it go on.

I go back to my final statement - if you personally keep a clear line between ooc and ic - no-one can accuse you justly that you are using ooc hatreds in charcter, also usually those who are that way inclined will react in such a way that when being monitored after being /reported will land them being banned.  [and for such behaviour I think it should be a total ban - but that is another discussion, as is my feeling that guilds should have part responsibility for 'policing' their members behaviour in game - and have rulings to punish such behaviour - but again that is another debate]

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Cebot

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Re: OOC information in your character profile as protection from harassment?
« Reply #4 on: September 18, 2007, 01:15:21 am »
The best you can do against OOC harassment is to tell the person OOC'ly to stop it and to leave you alone. If they don't you will have all the support from the GM's. /report logs the chat so they can have a look at it later, if it is very urgently you can check if there is a GM online with "/who game" and then send the GM of your choice a tell to ask him for support. For the case no GM is online you should make a petition and make a note about the previous report. (Alternatively you could also go to IRC and contact a GM there)


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zanzibar

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Re: OOC information in your character profile as protection from harassment?
« Reply #5 on: September 18, 2007, 02:25:20 am »
The best you can do against OOC harassment is to tell the person OOC'ly to stop it and to leave you alone. If they don't you will have all the support from the GM's.

I wish.
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Under the moon

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Re: OOC information in your character profile as protection from harassment?
« Reply #6 on: September 18, 2007, 03:58:07 am »
You ask “To what extent can people use their character profiles to protect themselves from such harassment?”

I am uncertain what you mean here, but assume you are talking about the character description window. How exactly would you use this as protection from harassment, and what would you write to further that goal?

Duraza

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Re: OOC information in your character profile as protection from harassment?
« Reply #7 on: September 18, 2007, 04:12:18 am »
The best you can do against OOC harassment is to tell the person OOC'ly to stop it and to leave you alone. If they don't you will have all the support from the GM's.

I wish.

I agree with Cebot actually. In the end if the person wants to continue to harass you, despite what the gm's do(if they do anything), they can make account after account to continue. You can change your character but if they find you the harassment will start again. You can get renamed but that doesn't make you safe. In the end its only the person harassing you who can decide to stop. Telling them may not work but there isn't a real way to stop them. Just ignore them and hope for the best I guess.
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zanzibar

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Re: OOC information in your character profile as protection from harassment?
« Reply #8 on: September 18, 2007, 04:55:25 am »
I agree with Cebot actually. In the end if the person wants to continue to harass you, despite what the gm's do(if they do anything), they can make account after account to continue. You can change your character but if they find you the harassment will start again. You can get renamed but that doesn't make you safe. In the end its only the person harassing you who can decide to stop. Telling them may not work but there isn't a real way to stop them. Just ignore them and hope for the best I guess.
I'm not sure you're agreeing with Cebot, though I don't think you're wrong.

You ask “To what extent can people use their character profiles to protect themselves from such harassment?”

I am uncertain what you mean here, but assume you are talking about the character description window. How exactly would you use this as protection from harassment, and what would you write to further that goal?
Honestly, I don't even know.  I've yet to find a silver bullet I'm willing to actually use.
Quote from: Raa
Immaturity is FTW.

bilbous

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Re: OOC information in your character profile as protection from harassment?
« Reply #9 on: September 18, 2007, 07:06:05 am »
To me there is more to it than just in the game. As far as I am concerned if you are rude and aggressive on this forum and your character(s) become known they will suffer the consequences that are unavailable on the forums. Is it out of context/character? well yes, but like it or not your behavior on the forums will affect how you are treated in the game. Ideally you should be able to expect separation between the two but realistically you cannot. Also if you play annoying characters, even if you always stay in character and strictly within the settings you will provoke unwanted retaliation and emotional reactions which may not be as controlled. Some people will always take the cheap shot.

zanzibar

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Re: OOC information in your character profile as protection from harassment?
« Reply #10 on: September 18, 2007, 07:35:58 am »
To me there is more to it than just in the game. As far as I am concerned if you are rude and aggressive on this forum and your character(s) become known they will suffer the consequences that are unavailable on the forums. Is it out of context/character? well yes, but like it or not your behavior on the forums will affect how you are treated in the game. Ideally you should be able to expect separation between the two but realistically you cannot. Also if you play annoying characters, even if you always stay in character and strictly within the settings you will provoke unwanted retaliation and emotional reactions which may not be as controlled. Some people will always take the cheap shot.
This is a rather simple way of looking at things and I don't think it reflects the problems a lot of people have.  I think a lot of people stand to feel insulted if they read your post.  Do things happen as you describe sometimes?  Sure.  Sometimes.  But let's try to stay on topic.
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Immaturity is FTW.

bilbous

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Re: OOC information in your character profile as protection from harassment?
« Reply #11 on: September 18, 2007, 07:56:51 am »
Well call me Oblivious but I do not know a lot of people who have this problem. I get the odd person jumping up and down on me at Harnies, I just go somewhere else. I get the extremely rare person twigging me about bilbo but I just think it is one of your alts and ignore (not /ignore) it. ;) oh and go somewhere else. Mostly I think anyone jumping on me at Harnies is Constrabus and I return the favor.  Both these suppositions may be wrong but they amuse me and I say nothing at the time. Most of my calisthenics are done at the plaza near Harnquist. I suppose it may annoy others and I should not  but I do not target anyone in particular and nobody ever asked me to stop.

As for putting OOC info in your profile, all I see that doing is giving ammo to whoever is bothering you if they are intending to bother you. Perhaps you could give an example of what you mean, something ineffective you have tried as you say nothing has been effective.

zanzibar

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Re: OOC information in your character profile as protection from harassment?
« Reply #12 on: September 18, 2007, 08:02:03 am »
Well call me Oblivious but I do not know a lot of people who have this problem.
Then you admit you do know some people who have had this problem.
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Immaturity is FTW.

bilbous

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Re: OOC information in your character profile as protection from harassment?
« Reply #13 on: September 18, 2007, 08:20:51 am »
Well you keep talking about it and there are others here who seem to agree but my knowledge is not first-hand. To be fair, I should note that my recent experience has been limited and most of my relationships in the game have been fairly casual. Certainly anyone spending a lot of time in game will have more opportunity for it to occur.

zanzibar

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Re: OOC information in your character profile as protection from harassment?
« Reply #14 on: September 18, 2007, 08:28:38 am »
Well you keep talking about it and there are others here who seem to agree but my knowledge is not first-hand. To be fair, I should note that my recent experience has been limited and most of my relationships in the game have been fairly casual. Certainly anyone spending a lot of time in game will have more opportunity for it to occur.
There's no need to backtrack.  I'm just wondering what it is that you hope to contribute to the thread.  Your original post seemed to say "People who suffer from this kind of griefing tend to deserve it".  Now you're acknowledging that a problem actually exists, but you don't have experience with it apart from what you're told about it by others.  I do think there's truth to your suggestion that using character profiles might inflame the situation, but you slipped in a bit there that wasn't really related to anything anyone had posted.  No one has posted saying that they tried this, so I'm not sure anyone is in a position to give you a review of the results.
Quote from: Raa
Immaturity is FTW.