I really want to like this game but...

[Chertix]

This is a most infuriating game.   I really want to like it but the learning curve it too steep for a new player.  Why do I say that?  Lets take a walk through of my experience so far.

First, I've spent well over 3 hours reading things.  Not 3 hours playing and reading, 3 hours of nothing but reading, searching for more reading information and reading more.  I still don't think I have more then the barest grasp of the game so far.  Sure I can walk around and kill rats but that's about it.  I want more in a game then mindless grinding of rats for no purpose.

My first experience with the game is the tutorial.  I get through with the last quest and am ready to leave but my graphic settings are pretty poor at this moment so I log out, log back in and can't remember what I need to say to leave the tutorial.  I try asking the end tutorial guy all sorts of things but the best I can get out of him are "bring me the three items you need" comment.  Great, that wasn't helpful.  I try searching the forums but not knowing exactly what to search for I don't find anything useful.  Lets try the help channel... and sit for 20 minutes.  It was quicker to make another new character, run the tutorial again, just to find out I needed the words "enter Ylakium".  By now I'm getting pretty frustrated but, I really want to like this game so lets chalk it up to learning curve and move on.  [Suggestion, for the tutorial at least add from the very first step a means of initiating some sort of conversation with the tutorial NPCs that is very clear.  To a new player there was nothing clear and I was just plain stuck at this point with no help available]

I take my second character and wander around for about an hour.  I've gotten thoroughly lost when I left the city and eventualy found another city.  Not having any idea what to fight and having nothing better to do I try fighting something out in the wilds... and quickly die.  Well, no time like the present, lets explore death.  I spend about an hour there and the NPCs are anything but helpful.  Finally I start doing things that are counterintuitive and finally find my way out and back to life.  I'm back in Ylakium at least but I'm frustrated with this character so I take a break.

A few hours later I come back and try for a clean slate.  Load up my first character again and tell the NPC "enter Ylakium".  It only took me a few hours to get my first character through creation, tutorial and out into the world.  Finally.

So entering Ylakium drops me in some back alley with no idea really want to do.  I start walking around asking NPCs and the odd player for quests.  At this point I wasn't entirely certain if some of the people standing around doing nothing were PCs or NPCs and I picked a few of each.  I get some quests but I'm thoroughly lost still even after spending time in the city with my other character.  I like how the characters have backgrounds and such and you want us to role play but if in real life even if I don't know how to do something I'm not fighting controls that only allow me to slowly look around, I can look over my shoulder with a quick glance, have an easier time with land marks, and can get around a lot easier.  One wrong turn and I'm completely lost here and it takes me a good while to turn around or do anything.  So I'm lost to begin with, quickly get lost and can't get back where I'm trying to go and every move is basically more frustration as I get deeper and deeper into confusion.  [Suggestion: Maps would be a good thing.  At least a general map of the city.  Sure, it's out of game but it compensates for a lot of little details you have in real life that the game can't compensate for.  Searching the web it seems maps and solid explanations like a walk through of how to start a few things are at the least highly frowned upon]

I've asked a lot of people for help and someone finally takes pity and helps a bit.  They even give me an air rune.  Great!  I've been wanting to try magic in the system some.  I purify the rune (go tutorial training!  It finally helped with something), Then I... wait, the tutorial didn't really teach us anything about magic, just how to purify a rune... (ah well, so much for help on magic form the tutorial).  The person who is helping me says "see, this is how magic works" and lines swirl around him.  Ah.. ok, great.  I have no idea what he did or it's significance other than magic "can" be done, I don't know how, and I obviously can't do that yet.  Finally after several questions I am told that I need to train it.  Ok, sure, I have some vague idea where the magic trainer is now.  Heck, I even have a quest to get mushrooms there.  Yay, something productive at last.  While out there I get a few mushrooms and then go try to train magic... Thus begins my initiation into the experience system.  I use 2 of my 3 training points and can't afford the third but I still don't have enough skill to discover any new spells and use that nifty air rune I have.  Turns out I have 2 skill in all the magic except two ways and one happens to be the one I need or air runes.  My 2 skill points spent buy me a mere sliver of skill, not enough for any spell use.  I've nearly killed myself 5 times from full health trying to learn spells now verifying this.  Ok, so now I'm nearly broke and practically nothing to show for it.  [Suggestion: a better in-game explanation of experience would be good.  New players will be frustrated enough as it is and having them feel they wasted all their hard-earned practicing points and meager cash only makes it more frustrating.  I fully expect the amount I spent in points and cash will be trivial later but to begin with 2 points and 60 trias or so is a fortune to a new player and telling them it's trivial or "some day" you'll have so much more won't make it less frustrating to them]

Fine... take a break.  I come back the next day and finish harvesting mushrooms, head to town, complete my quest and have 400 trias now!  Lets give weapon repair a try, I have 2 skill in that already and I'd like to see repair and crafting in this game.  I buy a repair kit... and spend 10 minutes failing to figure out how to use it.  None of the crafting stations seem to matter.  I ask around, it takes a while, but someone finally responds.  So I'm supposed to wield the weapon with the repair kit in my inventory and use a /repair command?  Where did I learn that before?  Ah, I didn't.  Sure, in a way it sort of emulates that you need a trainer to learn how to do things in real life.  Of course, I already have some skill in it so in theory I'm already trained to some extent.  Having to rely on the kindness of a player (most were not kind or helpful here) is a weak point in the game.  Socialization is a great thing, forcing players to require it from players who may or may not be available let alone helpful adds to the frustration level, not the fun.  [Suggestion: put usage hints in the item descriptions for things like repair kits].

Turns out with 2 skill I'm still not skilled enough to use a basic repair kit on my basic short sword.  Umm... okay.  I don't even see how I improve my skill so I can use it.  Fine, I give up on this.  I still have about 350 trias left, lets waste 100 on a pick and give mining a try.  I'm most looking forward to mining some ore and trying some crafting anyhow.  By now though my frustration level with the game is pretty high so I fully expect this to be an excersize in complete frustration.

I was right.

So I've read about mining, as much as I can find on the forums and online elsewhere.  I spend about two hours wandering the wilds looking for places to mind.  I've look for every sort of rock outcropping I can find and all of them tell me "You don't see a good place to dig".  At first I had the pick in my weapon hand (right hand) and something I read suggested maybe it should be in my left hand so I went back through all the places with a pick in my left hand.  The game text though leads me to think that didn't matter as it was the place itself that was the problem, not how I was doing it.  Fine... lets go back to town and ask around.  And ask... and ask.... and ask....... people are NOT helpful in this game.  I'm sure some are but they're all chatting with each other and not helping me at all.  I long since gave up hoping the NPC would help, he gave me some meager explanation about mining but couldn't tell me where to mine or what to look for even beyond he needs "tin".  Great.  [Suggestion: the smith who wants the ore and sells the picks could probably be a bit more helpful with answers to where to go, how to look for it, and what to do when mining]

Finally I'm sitting there searching the web again and find on the forums that there is a place to mine deep in the sewers.  Deep, huh?  So I've been running around the sewers lost for quite some time trying to mine walls, floors, brown lumps, grey lumps, fallen rocks, rocky outcroppings, heck even machinery.  No luck so far.  I can't even find the way out yet.  I've met a couple other lost people, they don't know how to mine either.  I met two people in different locations, they were too busy killing things to talk though.

I really want to like this game but it is so infuriatingly difficult.  A picture somewhere of what I'm looking for even, what kind of outcropping for mining, would be nice but those don't seem to be allowed.  It appears the only way to learn to mine is to find a player who takes pity on you and takes you there and walks you through it.  Of course, with 2 skill I apparently need 3 skill for gold or something.  I'm expecting I'll need 3-5 skill for anything to work with mining now and not sure I even can skill up in the sewers.  The way things are going I half expect there's some esoteric means of skilling up that I need to ask a player about to figure out and won't be told until I figure out even what to ask them in the first place.  This game has potential but if I had to summ it up right now in one word it'd be "frustrating".  Enough so that most people I know wouldn't bother playing it and would advise others not to.  I'll give it a bit longer but I'm quickly getting to the point where I'm ready to give up altogether.

[Farren Kutter]

You have many valid points. All I can say in return is that you're lucky to even have a tutorial, since it is new. I started off with nothing. You just have to make some friends and ask around a bit, have some patience. The devs know what is needed and are working hard. Just give the game a chance, and once you learn more about the game, and know where things are, it gets less frustrating. The problem with players, a lot of them, is that they ignore new players. I do it myself sometimes. They sort of make me think of sharks. You just sorta stand still and don't talk and make them think you're AFK.

As a note, light-blue names represent NPCs, green represent players.

Training is still being balanced a bit I believe, and will likely be tweaked many times between now and the 1.0 release. I don't know what to say in regards to the repairing thing, other than maybe try repairing a dagger? Make sure the weapons needs to be repaired as well. Not sure how that works. Ask around Harnquist in regards to many questions. Send /tells to people to get their attention even. Asking people with custom descriptions (meaning something other than what was there when they created the character, usually a physical description or something) wouldn't hurt, for they are usually more experienced and also tend to be more likely to help.

I'm not sure what else to say. It is, in the end, your choice what you do and think, but I commend you for at least attempting to help and like the game. Far too many people get angry and sorta flame the game when they can't figure it out after playing for ten minutes. Good luck if you attempt to try again. If you contact me or any of my Rangers of Yliakum ingame, they should help you. We are noted by the guildname under our player names. Kaerli in particular can be helpful.

[Earl_Listbard]

Aha, well to someone who is new to the game it can seem almost overwhelming... yet I see many mistakes in your efforts so I am not surprised my friend... If you so wish I can help you through the game myself. It is not that difficult, so long as you keep a clear mind and know what to do and when.


However let me stress, this is not a game you pick up for one day, and come out with tons of skills, and stats nearly maxed. To truly say you gave it a shot, is to spend about two weeks playing. Though, the first day can certainly be overwhelming but like I said I am willing to help you out *if* you want to continue.

[Farren Kutter]

See? Helpful people already The forums are the gateway to help my friend Sometimes :/

[Mordaan]

Yeah, I hear you.  The game *at it's present state of development* can be kind of frustrating when you are just starting out.  But like Earl_Listbard said, this game is much more of a long term commitment.  It will take some time to get used to everything and learn how to do everything you need to do.  Take some time first to just explore and get to know the land and where everything is.  When I first joined, I spent time just doing that...for days.  Pretty soon, everything just became familiar.  Then again, back when I joined Hydlaa was the only area of the game.  Just hang in there and learn things little by little instead of trying to learn everything at once.

The main thing to remember is the game is nowhere near finished yet.  It's still relatively early in it's development so expectations need to be realistic.  The tutorial has made things a lot easier to get going for a new player.  At least now you can get some start up tria and maybe a weapon.  Before you started out with nothing at all.  But even the tutorial is the first attempt at such a thing.  Perhaps as ideas or shortcomings like the ones you point out will eventually be added to make it even better.

All I can say is hang in there and keep your expectations realistic.  Try taking the time to first make some friends and roleplaying a bit.  Then you will have someone to turn to to ask your questions.  The developers seem to want to keep a lot of things private rather than public but for such things as mine locations it can seem frustrating.  They want people to depend on help ingame but as you point out, sometimes people are less than helpful, and that is the most disappointing thing.  I am guilty of it too.  I usually have something specific in mind I want to do with the limited time I can play so I don't always notice when people are aimlessly wandering about.

Personally, I see where the community is coming from but I just don't see what would be so horrible about having a place (website) with maps, mining loctions, and how to's with specifics on how to do everything from examples of how to fight, craft, mine, etc.  That would add much more to the game than it would take away but eh, that's not up to me so...   

But that being said, if you haven't already seen it, this section of the forums may be of help.
http://hydlaa.com/smf/index.php?board=53.0

If we meet in game I'd be more than happy to help you out in any way I can.


edit: What I would like to see eventually is another icon when clicking the furnace or other crafting objects that leads you to a step by step tutorial that literally shows you the mechanics of what you need to do.  [e.g.: "want to make steel?  prerequisites: level 5 in metallurgy: do you have the book 'working with stock'? - be sure to put that book in the 'mind' slot of your inventory screen:   step 1) ..."]

[bilbous]

AS far as repairing goes it is a little unbalanced right now because many of the base weapon have had their values increase and what you can repair is based on the weapon value. This may be one of the things in the big craft update being rolled out. As it stands now you are much better off repairing Rats Fine Dagger (a looted magical weapon) than a plain dagger as the magical weapons did not have their value enhanced. A dagger is worth about 540 tria now (I think) and the R.F.D. is worth about 88 tria. As I said this is a recent development.

For mining there are no mines in the sewers as far as I know, it might have been changed. What you heard about was probably the area under the temple which is accessed from within the temple. For the most part mines occur on the dark grey ground textures and if you do a forum search for prospecting you should find instructions for building a shortcut for so doing.

lf you continue to make such thoughtful posts you will likely find many more people will be willing to help you as time goes on within the game as positive contributions are view favorably.

Here is one additional tip for you clicking on the ? shortcut or typing /help brings up the ingame help and most of the commands are listed in there. Like everything else it is not polished to its final sheen but it is quite useful. Another thing useful to look at is the options, the shortcut with the +- or  just press o outside the chat window.

[Ravenguard]

This game is more based on community than the other MMORPG I've played; WoW.  Now there, you didn't need anyone else's help.  Things were pretty much layed out for you. It was also a much faster game in terms of growth, you can make money easily, quests are easy and mundane (or just completely dumb), and it was just... easy.

PS isn't like that.  Maybe that's because it isn't done, or maybe it's because it was made for more player interaction and a better challenge.  It took me a week to figure out what the heck was going on, but because I wanted to figure it out, I did it.  Yah, I got stuck in the DR, jumping off of ledges for hours, yah, I had no idea how to make money, was too embarassed/frightened to ask, but when I finally did, I guess I got the right people.  Don't just ask any random person, like others have said, make sure they 'look' like they know what they're doing.  If they have crazy helms, they might know what they're doing.  If they're offering to buy gold for 500 tria, then they probably know what they're doing.  They're also usually helpful, and although won't lead you by the hand, they can send you in the right direction.

If you really want to like this game, give it a chance and work at it.  Enough people have stuck through it; it is possible.

[Zan]

Don't just ask any random person, like others have said, make sure they 'look' like they know what they're doing.  If they have crazy helms, they might know what they're doing.  If they're offering to buy gold for 500 tria, then they probably know what they're doing.  They're also usually helpful, and although won't lead you by the hand, they can send you in the right direction.

If you really want to like this game, give it a chance and work at it.  Enough people have stuck through it; it is possible.

If they have crazy helms they know how to do some quests or maybe just have long playing friends. If they offer to buy gold for 500 tria, they're not very smart because they'd make more profit if they bought it for less.

If you really want someone decent, look at character descriptions .. find a person with a well written character description who doesn't seem like the kind of character that minds helping others. Then ask them in-character for help. or use brackets if it's OOC information. Roleplaying is what makes this game great, not crazy helms.

[bilbous]

Just a further note here: Players spending a lot of time at the forge, anvil and whatnot also have been around a while but often have a bunch of different windows open and not be paying attention to the chat window. They are quite likely to be unresponsive. Do not take it as you being ignored, it is more to do with awkward functionality for the most part.

[Ravenguard]

Well, logically, I wouldn't ask a dwarf with a four prong helm thing where he can't really see.  I would equate that with a crazy person.  Unfortunately, you have to make a choice, and those people are more likely to know more about the game than, say, someone wearing the first clothes you get + dagger.

That means, if you want to fool someone, get an axe.

And people that buy it for 500 tria may not be the 'smartest,' but they sure are the nicest.
Be nice to your miners.  THEY JUST MIGHT ORGANIZE. 

[Parallo]

I for one am fed up with the whole idea of telling how long someone has been playing by their equipment. It is totally silly. I am a scholar. I wear robes. Robes = not wearing armour. That is till I have people actually stopping and giving me bloody charity. Charity! After playing so long I can't remember when I started! I am driven to wear leather just to stop people from talking to me. Now I can stay in a guild house, however, and therefore can avoid idiots altogether.

In summation: Read descriptions before I end up never seeing the light of the crystal again.

[Zan]

That's what I meant with my post ... some of the most experienced and best players are roleplayers. They stay true to their character and they don't make it a point to walk around in the most unusual gear they can find. That is why I said character descriptions are a much better way of judging players than what gear they seem to be wearing.

[Parallo]

I know. I was agreeing and giving myself as an example.

[Drakon]

Character descriptions are OOC and should not be used if a real RP is aimed at. Tsk Tsk.

After all, I have yet to see a PC with pedigree papers and a collar on.

Of course....
Johnny walks up to funny looking Dwarf beside Hamquist and reaches for the Dwarfs Identity scroll to check out the description.

"Get Your hands out of there!" screams Dorrknoker..."Thats none of Your bidness."

"I'm sorry. Just wanted to see if You knew what You were doing." Replies johnny......
 

[Ravenguard]

Hey now, stereotyping isn't an *exact* science, but it can work some of the time.