NPC interactions and the tutorial.

[capgamer]

The tutorial needs some serious work. NPC interaction needs some serious work.

I should not be spending an hour searching for the perfect phrase to make an NPC give me a quest. The first one wasn't that bad, because at least she told me what I was supposed to say. No sir, the hour (I am not exaggerating) was spent trying out single and multiple word phrases on the blacksmith. You would think that "train me" or "forge" or "blacksmithing" or "hello" or "help" or any of the countless words and phrases I tried would elicit something even remotely hinting at what I was supposed to type. No. No sir, I was evidently supposed to go back through an hour's worth of failed dialog to find what the original quest giver said ("tell her that miss whats-her-face sent you) before I was able to complete this section.

Something is seriously wrong here. These NPCs need one word recognition flags, because little niceties like "what's her face sent me" may sound really nice and fit with the rolelplay, but an entire hour of guess and check makes me think that maybe things need to be simplified down a little. I can understand wanting to immerse the player, but that can't happen when you're frustrating them to death with NPCs that don't understand basic English but rather search for funny little catch phrases.

Maybe this improves later on? All I know is that it is inexcusable in the tutorial and I regret the time I wasted downloading the game and trying to figure out what the heck I was supposed to spoon feed the NPCs. I can't play it anymore in its current form: it's too frustrating.

This really needs to be improved.

[Mordraugion]

Hi and welcome, I am sorry that you had such difficulties but the NPC does tell you what to say, if you had said it immediately instead of trying different phrases you wouldn't have had an hours worth of logs to read through, here in the Newbie Help>Guides and Tutorials section is a complete walkthrough.
If you crashed out halfway through and can not refer back to your chat dialog, then all chat is logged in the Planeshift directory.

[Xillix Queen of Fools]

Read to Succeed.

[capgamer]

Sorry, guess I'm spoiled by text adventures where you type something and the system works with you: not against you.

[Lanarel]

Difficulty with NPC talk is not something you will find limited to the tutorial. It is mainly caused by the fact that it is tried to be much nicer than most other RPGs., where you just select from provided answers. It is not solved by just allowing a single keyword to be the answer either. Lately, a lot (really a lot) is being done to improve this and to allow more answers. But the fact is, that if you only change this in tutorial, it would not be much of a tutorial, until the whole game is improved

Anyway, three hurrays for the settings team for improving npc chat alot lately 

[Xillix Queen of Fools]

cap the npcs are incapable of working against you, it is simple garbage in, garbage out, if you read all answers are give to you verbatim.

[Parallo]

I have images of the NPCs gathering in a smoky dimly-light room conspiring how to stop you getting through the tutorial appearing in my head right now.

NPC1: How do we stop them?
NPC2: Could you rephrase that?
NPC1: Could you try saying that in different words?

But no, the days of NPCs being just decoration are gone. They actually are a hell of a lot easier to interact with than before.

[Vornne]

What I would quite like to know, it why are (at least most) quests still using the 'exact phrase' system... with the svn test database, quests have triggers like 'here you' for example, and you can use any sentence with those words in it, in order.

This is not a complaint just seems a good place to ask. I have wondered for a while why the test server seems to have a better system. Coming Soon^TM?

[Lanarel]

Vornne:
Other quests work the same way. After you say something to an NPC, it is passed through some steps to translate what you said in something more standard. Synonyms are translated to a single form. For example, "hi", "hello","goodmorning" all translate into "greeting", so that if "greeting" is a trigger, you can say all those things. Somewhere, also some words are removed that are not needed (I think). So if you say "Can I bring you something?", this translates into "can bring you".

[Marqsaynt]

I've noticed I've been able to add some RP words into basic dialog and it still works so, I think the better NPC chat system must already be in-game to at least some extent. Let me tell you... there is something very satisfying about being able to walk up to a character like Ukabnu and say "Give me a quest, shrew" and have it actually work. Probably had a few other choice names for her during our conversations but hey, she started the name calling first! 

[Jeraphon]

What I would quite like to know, it why are (at least most) quests still using the 'exact phrase' system... with the svn test database, quests have triggers like 'here you' for example, and you can use any sentence with those words in it, in order.

Vornne: answers to questions of exact quest mechanics aren't suitable for these forums. Hit me up in IRC and I'll tell you.

[Ravenguard]

I have images of the NPCs gathering in a smoky dimly-light room conspiring how to stop you getting through the tutorial appearing in my head right now.

NPC1: How do we stop them?
NPC2: Could you rephrase that?
NPC1: Could you try saying that in different words?

But no, the days of NPCs being just decoration are gone. They actually are a hell of a lot easier to interact with than before.

Parallo, you made my day.  Thanks a bunch. 

Sure, I had some problems with the NPCs when I started, but it's a system. You've got to get used to it.  If an NPC is being unruly, move on and do something else.  They don't forget that you gave them 10 rat hides, and will gladly continue the conversation a few days down the line.  If you sleep on it and give it a little thought, (and take good notes) you'll catch on and everything will be hunky dory.

[Lanarel]

They don't forget that you gave them 10 rat hides, and will gladly continue the conversation a few days down the line.  If you sleep on it and give it a little thought, (and take good notes) you'll catch on and everything will be hunky dory.

Actually, in 3.020, NPCs still do forget what you gave them or what you said, when you log out or talk to other NPCs, or the server crashes. So be careful doing other things (in game) until the fix for this makes it into a new release.

[Meredee]

I had the same problem with the smithy!  I started playing on the day .20 was released and after first hour in the tutorial world and fighting with the smith lady I resigned. I searched in the web, but havent found anything (the tutorial was completely new!) I tried asking on IRC a day later. Somebody of the more experienced users took a look at the turiorial out of curiosity and helped me finding the right phase (...sent me).

[Xillix Queen of Fools]

The npcs do not work against anyone, it really is the case if you read what the npcs say you cannot fail. For those of you who still manage it check the tutorial walkthrough mord posted above and then you can see clearly that reading is the "magic" trick.