Poll

There are several ways the introduction could work, how do you feel it should display unknown players?

1. Invisible name/label
2. Label in a different color/Visible name
3. Name in brackets
4. No introduction system at all

Author Topic: Introductions for Players  (Read 17484 times)

LigH

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Re: Introductions for Players
« Reply #30 on: November 23, 2007, 04:01:58 pm »
@ Myriel:

You may see who's talking by the Chat Bubbles...

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Zwenze

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Re: Introductions for Players
« Reply #31 on: November 23, 2007, 04:16:02 pm »
Have any one tried of you to make a new char and see how PS feels to newbs these days? I did. Aftersome time another player constantly kill stealed, tried to lure other stronger npcs at me, offended me and challenged me. (Needless to say, that when I brought my main char online the player behaved nice and polite as the "poses no challenge" was not in my char desc anymore).

Anyhow, when the names are not visible, how should players ask gms for assistance in such cases? Sometimes knwing the name for others is essential. So please please please dont make the unintroduced char's name not invisible.

Velh Krome

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Re: Introductions for Players
« Reply #32 on: November 23, 2007, 05:03:43 pm »
That, and also the difficulty in tracing back a criminal (rp-wisely), very unrealistic anonymosity that is, made me vote for the coloring solution.
To offer an option to decide wether ones char knows another one is much more preferable than plainly being forced to do so.

Sajut

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Re: Introductions for Players
« Reply #33 on: November 23, 2007, 05:35:57 pm »
YAY, invisible names/labels is a great idea!
But for a good RP-like implementation there is more needed.
Who says that all persons are able to remember names similar to others?
there are only a few things that needed to be noticed.

So if we want a very good introduce system we need a system that let you forget the names if you didn't heared it some time. The time depends on your "name remember" skill, your INT, how many sleep you got in the last time, what kind of magic lays on you, how many whams you got on you head, whats the social status of the person, how many other names you have to remember and how many of them sounds similarly.
But thats not all, when you have forgot a name you can try to remember it, using your "name remember" skill, maybe, after some minutes or seconds you can remember the name or one which sounds similar.

I think this is not all whats needed to get implemented for a good hardcore-RP-rules-game, so keep on thinking and make PS to a real mmoRPg!

Liadan

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Re: Introductions for Players
« Reply #34 on: November 23, 2007, 06:49:13 pm »
I have mixed feelings about this new encoded feature.

Yes, it would be great for RP-ing. Not knowing other character's names until they introduce themselves, like in real life. Solves the problem with neon green names being accidentally mentioned.

BUt

real life gives you other ways to identify speakers. IE the sound of their voice, how they act and react.  And you don't need to type in actions to explain what you are doing.  You can look at the unknown person, without needing  to describe who they are, because hey, they can see it too. But with games, unless there's a physical movement that everyone can see (ie turning of head and looking in a general direction), a /me looks at the fenki at the fireplace, is going to bring up more questions than resolve.

There is only so much you can simulate in a game.

Quin

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Re: Introductions for Players
« Reply #35 on: November 24, 2007, 12:56:52 am »
Actually this is my favorite suggestion:
It would be nice if players could have a "stranger label" for those who do not know them. That way, instead of seeing their name tag they would see their "stranger tag". For example: "Elderly dwarf", "Androgynous Fenki", "Tall Dermorian", etc. Of course, the naming policy would need to incorporate these new tags as they will need to comply with it (so don't even think about going all 1337 on this). Tags could be updated by the player depending on the character's current state.
An extremely short unique description, so that you realise that you've seen this person around and can pick him out later.  :thumbup:
 
But of the 4 options presented, I voted for brackets. (#2 or# 3 would be better than #1 or #4 in my opinion)
Reason being, that since the introductions is an attempt at more realism for the players in-game, I feel that the invisible tags solution is even less realistic than the current situation.
The problem with invisible tags is that every time you log on (heck, every time you turn a corner) You are dumped into a world of completely unknown strangers, even though you have probably walked past and/or heard some of them talking a hundred times.
As far as I feel, in the current situation, name tags are just replacing faces and easily recognizable features  of the people we see every day.

If Dajoji's suggestion could be coded and easily policed, I would vote for that one in a heartbeat!
Quinidain Sherkhan : Enkidukai knife fighter and Starlight Hunter , living life one rat hide at a time

bilbous

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Re: Introductions for Players
« Reply #36 on: November 24, 2007, 08:16:23 am »
You could always replace names with unique numbers.

Number six step forward please!

Jeraphon

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Re: Introductions for Players
« Reply #37 on: November 25, 2007, 04:06:52 am »
You could always replace names with unique numbers.

Number six step forward please!

I am not a number! I am a free ylian!

A stranger label's interesting. I've seen it in some MUDs before, where you give a short description, a longer description (given when you actually look at them,) and a name as soon as you "recognize" them (when they tell it to you.) So it's not a bad idea, entirely. Just remains to be seen how it fares in a graphical application.

Nilrem

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Re: Introductions for Players
« Reply #38 on: November 26, 2007, 07:15:09 pm »
Thanks Quinidain for letting me know about this thread.

My vote goes for "No introduction system". That is, to let things the way they are now.
If anyone cares about the opinion of someone who doesn't play the game, I try to state it here:

The code has to serve the players. Make their life easier when using the game.
A code that is not set in a game rule, should not force, nor coerce players freedom.

The way it is now, players already roleplay correctly unknown characters, as a general rule.
Some might happen to make the mistake of using accidentally the name because they see it there, green and flashy. In those cases, there is always the chance to explain the mistake to the player having done it, and, from my experience, none of them persists on the mistake. It becomes so strongly logic that their char couldn't know the others, just first time seeing them, that the player immediately realizes about the mistake as well as learning an important differentiation, which is IC from OOC. What you know, and what you see, doesn't have to always be what your char knows and sees. It is something that could be even explained (if not already) in the game tutorial.

A perfect /introducing system would end up achieving a status that would, generally, equal the one that already exists now by players behaving just naturally.
With the small burden of all players having to use the /introduce command to reach that status.
And with the addendum that code is always prone to have fails, or non-considered cases of use. Some ways have been already mentioned when someone might know about another's name, without having been /introduced first.

* The char name is eavesdropped in an ongoing conversation nearby.
* Another char introduces you to a third. (With the introduction system now the player using the third char is forced to use /introduce command to keep consistency)
* Someone shouts a name, and another replies as having been addressed to.
* Someone who rules a business, such as "Teckler Gofnary shoes".
* Someone who has a very particular trait, or a special disease. Enkidukai allergic of fur, Kran scared about butterflies...
* Someone who is famous or has a very specific charge, such as the octarch.
* Any other case that comes to mind.

All those are cases that are naturally dealt with by the players as of now, and without issues of relevance.
I think it is something that can be demanded from the playerbase, that such things are roleplayed correctly. There is no need to put a hard code behind it, in order to enforce such behaviors; this would rather seem as a lack of confidence towards the players capabilities.

When I was first told about this, I teased about the "reintroducing" command, due to names not lasting forever in memory.
I see Sajut has already put that idea into debate, in a serious fashion.
I disagree with having a "countdown" set on characters, based on time passed since last hearing a name or interacting with that same name. I am not saying that the char is to remember all the names correctly, as shown to you by the green labels. I'm just saying, let the player have the freedom to decide how much her/his character is meant to remember the names. Trust the players ability to roleplay correctly, and if you consider a char should have forgotten your one, feel free to state such a thing to the other player, and see the reaction.

The implemented should indeed aid for realism, but not mean an imposition that then makes realism a burden.

For example:

Just similar to the forgetting about names, one can equally argue about untrained skills. Indeed, in order to keep a skill/stat at a maximum, or a given level, a certain amount of "maintenance" training should be performed. But this is not implemented, and better that way. Because otherwise the game would become too much time consuming on /train /maintain train /introduce /reintroduce and leave few room to the build of lives in a fictional world that is the roleplay.

A similar comment can be applied to the temptation of using intelligence stat when trading, be it with NPC or other characters, and be cheated. Then again I prefer to let the players roleplay such a cheat (if any) rather than have it imposed by any code to be.

There is much code that can be done, and aid the player play. For example, by allowing /import /export of the buddy list. Players creating a new char now have only the chance to rebuild the buddy list they have with another char by hand if that's what they want.
Or implement the "comments on buddylist" that would allow to add a note (sort of a post-it) to each buddy list entry, that could contain info regarding the last play you had with that character, or any particular traits/events you want to keep in mind when playing with that character again. Much more handy to have all the info centralized in the game, rather than on disperse notes all through the desk.

To sum up:

To me the /introduce command is not bringing much enthusiasm, because it is not perceived as being something that represents a "gain", for what it aims to bring "is already there".

The code should implement new tools for improving the players experience.
Are there any MoonSeekers left?

Liadan

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Re: Introductions for Players
« Reply #39 on: November 26, 2007, 07:44:31 pm »
Wow, you just stated what everyone's been arguing about...but in shorter, less concise posts.

But i have to agree...don't make us have to introduce each other. It'll be a pain.

ThomPhoenix

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Re: Introductions for Players
« Reply #40 on: November 26, 2007, 07:48:56 pm »
Can't you just wait until you've seen it in-game? Jeesh, don't be so conservative.
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Liadan

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Re: Introductions for Players
« Reply #41 on: November 26, 2007, 07:51:19 pm »
yeh, you see the problem with waiting until then is that chances are we're gonna get line "Suck it up buttercup, it's here to stay"

so the best defense is a good offense...fight it now I say!

ThomPhoenix

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Re: Introductions for Players
« Reply #42 on: November 26, 2007, 08:07:22 pm »
But you have no idea how it's going to be, just that you have to introduce yourself. I've actually tried it out, and I think it works pretty nicely. On Laanx the experience will likely change, but I don't foresee any difficulties. At first you will have to re-introduce yourself to everyone you already know, but once you've done that it will be smooth sailing. Why would you even want to know the name of that dwarf silently hammering his swords over there? Why would you even want to know the name of that newbie who's killing rats? Why do you want to see that guild sign floating over everyone's heads? So you can use OOC info IC? Because you keep statistics on everyone?

And when you do want to know someone's name, because you need it, or because you would like to know him?

/introduce: Just one command, one button.

Also, I foresee some good usages for Blue Way wizards. By using divination they would automatically know everyone's name and public guild. In other words, the need of introducing would be disabled from them if they have 40 in Blue Way minimum. (an example)
« Last Edit: November 26, 2007, 08:11:53 pm by ThomPhoenix »
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bilbous

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Re: Introductions for Players
« Reply #43 on: November 26, 2007, 08:27:44 pm »
I can't wait to snub everyone who /introduce spams me. I will know who they all are and they will not know me! Don't worry people I won't snub everyone some people will get to see my name in the banner. It seems seriously arbitrary to me and I can see now some people may refuse to trade with you or even talk to you without an /introduction and that seems a little OOC. I am willing to wait and see.

Lanarel

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Re: Introductions for Players
« Reply #44 on: November 26, 2007, 09:04:03 pm »
It seems seriously arbitrary to me and I can see now some people may refuse to trade with you or even talk to you without an /introduction and that seems a little OOC. I am willing to wait and see.
Actually, refusing to trade with someone who you do not know makes perfect sense IC, in many cases. And characters that are not talking to you because you have not introduced yourself when that makes no sense, are not the ones you want to talk with I guess :)