Introductions for Players

[Quin]

To me this seems like inconveniencing the vast majority of players for the sake of a few griefers.

Is typing /introduce such an inconvenience?

You can shortcut it if you want.

A lot of people are acting as if it was impossible to identify someone. Type the code and don't worry about it. It will take about 30 seconds at most to 'recognize' everyone at Harn's on a busy day. You're making a huge deal out of a few letters and a slashy thing.

If I understand the coming system correctly, You've just /introduce spammed everyone at Harnquists.  They all now know your name in an OOC manner and you only know the name of any who bother to /introduce themselves back to you.
It's not in the needing to know everyone elses name, it's just my preference (and a feeling of more realism, to me) to walk through a world of faces not a world of cookie cutter drones.
Do you truely believe that the average player is unable to deal with people they haven't met in a relatively IC manner?

[ThomPhoenix]

Yes. Only a month ago I had a long-time player of a well known guild do this:
* Hey <character name> of <guild name>, what are you doing here?!
- [How do you know my name and guild?]
* [You're wearing the badge and uniform of your guild, with your name on it. Everyone of your guild does that.]
- [Not me, not now.]
* [Oh...]
* [Forget what I said]
- [Sure]

So the guy read a guild description on the forum, then saw my guild and name label and based on that information he judged that his character should be able to recognize me. The fact that he used OOC information IC twice was beyond him. And I repeat, that was a well-known player from a well-known guild.

Now, the Introduction system would easily have prevented this issue in what would normally have been a good RP.

[Suno_Regin]

I have something else in mind now.

Until someone reads your description, they should be on a temporary "ignore list", that way they don't jump out and say something without even knowing anything about you. /tells would be exempted, as would guild, group, and help chats, but just for the main tab, this would be a way to "force your description in their face", before they can go and act like they know you and say something weird to you. Of course, they could bypass by simply double-clicking then closing it, but some people might actually pay heed, in the very least it would help the situation a slight bit better.

From what I hear, this introduction has a lot of kinks to work out. Instead of implementing it right away when still unsure about how to conduct it exactly, some alternatives should be listed that may deal with the situation a little better.

[ThomPhoenix]

Have you ever read the endless stories people put in their descriptions? How do you explain "reading someone's description" and then "just" knowing them? I'd rather have someone just explaining to me, with talking, who they are.

[Suno_Regin]

I'm talking about what you said earlier. They knew your name and everything right away, using OOC information to simply assume. With your description being forced in their face, maybe they'd realize that those things aren't listed anywhere on your person, and would ask rather than addressing you formally. People who put endless stories in their description are abusing it, but that's another issue. Skim through and see if any physical details are listed. If not, disregard it and ask them anyway.

[Velh Krome]

Hm yes,
my comment was about Raa's words, but with your clearance, Raa, and Dajoji's statement it is shown in a different light, so thanks you two for that.
As I understood it like directed at ignorant newbies I just wanted to state that we all are welcoming new ones taking the efforts and hurdles to get into it properly, and are willing to provide support.

Cheers!

[Quin]

So the guy read a guild description on the forum, then saw my guild and name label and based on that information he judged that his character should be able to recognize me. The fact that he used OOC information IC twice was beyond him. And I repeat, that was a well-known player from a well-known guild.

Now, the Introduction system would easily have prevented this issue in what would normally have been a good RP.

OK. agreed.  That encounter sounds like a bit of a bummer.  But my glasses must have a bit of a rose colored tinge to the lenses.  Sure I've had people use my name and know the guild I'm in (I could stand to lose the guild tags until an introduction is made  ) but it's never been enough to knock me out of my escapist world.  Most of the time it's just been someone trying to get my attention and haven't discovered /greet yet, or haven't got the hang of /me sees Quinidain talking to the cute waitress at Brado's and says "excuse me sir..."
I'm looking more at the opportunities to be missed:

Why would you even want to know the name of that dwarf silently hammering his swords over there? Why would you even want to know the name of that newbie who's killing rats? Why do you want to see that guild sign floating over everyone's heads? So you can use OOC info IC? Because you keep statistics on everyone?

I'd like to be able to recognize that dwarf silently hammering his swords, because I know that some time in the future I'm going to try weapon making, yet again.  And one of these times when I go to the mines because I'm broke again and see a familiar dwarf, who I've not yet talked to, silently mining...  missed opportunity with invisible tags.

Or when I'm off hunting Grandaddy Tef and see a familiar newbie who was just recently hunting rats and now has a brand new shiney sword approaching said Grandaddy Tef...  Missed opportunity with invisible tags. 

[ThomPhoenix]

Well, you're right. The only way to solve that would be to give players the tools to fully customize their character's looks and clothes. I don't see that happening soon, though.

I'm not saying the system's perfect, I'm just saying people shouldn't be afraid of new things and plead to take them out before they've even seen them.

Perhaps this could potentially be beter:
Un-introduced player:
   - Different label colour.
   - No guild label.
   - No description available.
After using /introduce:
   - Normal green label colour, indicating you know said player.
   - Guild label is visible, if his/her guild is public.
   - Description available.

Discuss.

[Suno_Regin]

No description available for people who aren't introduced to you basically means you don't even know what they look like, even though they're standing right in front of you. Doesn't seem like it'd make sense.

[ThomPhoenix]

Because everyone puts entire life stories in their descriptions. When someone makes a description according to the rules, it incidentally is pretty useless. The only useful information in a description right now is the race name.

But I guess descriptions could be made available when not introduced, albeit not displaying player-written information.

[Suno_Regin]

Maybe people just need a little...filling in on what a description really is. Make an option to report abused descriptions and other things like that, similar to what was done with the excessive space thing people were doing in their descriptions.

[bilbous]

This is kind of strange to me. When the big push to abolish OOC naming faux pas came around about six months ago I responded by adding a tattoo of my name to my forehead which has gradually been submerging under my skin. I still generally refused to introduce myself and was extremely reluctant to tell people my name. If asked I would reply "it is plain as my face" or some such thing. I generally do not use any of the /emotes, you can consider me old stone face. I have been introduced to a good many people by the local welcome wagon lady, Agara and some others. I cannot remember all the people who made introduction nor who I was introduced to so from this perspective this is a pretty useful plan.  It is not complete but a good first step as long as more follow.

I was thinking about this at work tonight and I am almost starting to look forward to it. It will be almost as fresh a start as the wipe that was bandied about earlier and that I have advocated for some time. I am really not that keen on a wipe as I do not have the time to build myself back to where I am but I think it is appropriate in principle.

As I was saying, I am looking forward to it as I think I would like to see how long I can go without /introducing myself and how many people will introduce themselves to me. If someone should do so I might respond with "Hi, I am Sandy Beech" or perhaps 'I am Pebb Lehead." I might say bilbous too on occasion. Of course, the rest of my tattoo will have to go by then. One thing I think unfortunate is the somewhat unrealistic "you evaluate..." section of the description. It will ultimately serve to identify me as the same kran as the other day whatever name I choose to go by as it will not likely change significantly from one viewing to another by the same character. If I had no skills then I could be any new character but I am fair to middling as pertains to character development.

[Quin]

ThomPhoenix and Bilbous have good points for the invisible tags (I actually had not thought about the "I wish to stay anonimous" view Bilbous has)
And to paraphrase ThomPheonix, no system will be perfect.
But without having had the chance to play any of the options, I just have a better feeling about the options with a positive visual cue showing that you don't know a person yet.  I think many in this thread have given good reasons to adopt one of theses options over the invisible tags.  Having said that, I also wish that a few more of those in favor of invisible tags would post their views on why they prefer the option over the others.  My mind is open enough to be changed.

And as for the Description question.  Yeah I think that many people mis-use/misunderstand the Description feature.  But it is there to describe the visual appearance of your character, so I see no reason for ever withholding it from the other players.  Maybe, one of the NPCs in the tutorial could say a word or two about it, but then again people are already starting to complain about the length  (huh, I'm in favor of it getting alittle longer if it helps)

[Mordraugion]

A touch off-topic but just lately we have started cracking down on OOC ness of Descriptions URL's etc and no doubt one day soon(tm) we will start on removing the random life stories to replace with actual physical descriptions

[Parallo]

That is perhaps one of the best things I have heard in a long time here.