Author Topic: How to better aid the new player.  (Read 6723 times)

Liadan

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Re: How to better aid the new player.
« Reply #15 on: November 23, 2007, 06:58:12 pm »
Helping newbies get together is another idea. I remember when i first started, i found several newbies like myself and it made figuring everything out a lot less frustrating. When we were totally stumped, several veteran players helped us, but a lot of the learning we figured out ourselves. Being by yourself in Yliakum as a newbie is rather frightening :D


Im not sure how this could be incorperated game-wise but maybe not have unique instances for newbies in the tutorial. That way they have the opportunity to make friends before entering the actual game world. Then maybe an NPC can add a line about /tells and group so they know how to find each other upon leaving the tutorial..



oooo like being automatically placed in a newbie guild? that would be fun. then we could get lost together! YEY!

Lyoven

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Re: How to better aid the new player.
« Reply #16 on: November 23, 2007, 07:09:07 pm »
The thing I found worst as a newbie were the NPC dialogs. I really needed to get adjusted to their restricted vocabulary. I don't think they have been changed very much since then. This has been an option in some of the previous polls (http://hydlaa.com/smf/index.php?topic=30659.0), but I think it may have gone too unnoticed because it probably were the more experience people voting for newer things for them to do (i.e. crafting). Has anyone taken the side of the new users in that poll? Just a suggestion.

Jeraphon

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Re: How to better aid the new player.
« Reply #17 on: November 23, 2007, 07:26:44 pm »
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I don't think they have been changed very much since then.

Then help me out.

Eodun

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Re: How to better aid the new player.
« Reply #18 on: November 23, 2007, 07:48:17 pm »
Helping newbies get together is another idea. I remember when i first started, i found several newbies like myself and it made figuring everything out a lot less frustrating. When we were totally stumped, several veteran players helped us, but a lot of the learning we figured out ourselves. Being by yourself in Yliakum as a newbie is rather frightening :D


Im not sure how this could be incorperated game-wise but maybe not have unique instances for newbies in the tutorial. That way they have the opportunity to make friends before entering the actual game world. Then maybe an NPC can add a line about /tells and group so they know how to find each other upon leaving the tutorial..



Lol, like an Immigrators Receiver Comitee XDDD
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Lyoven

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Re: How to better aid the new player.
« Reply #19 on: November 23, 2007, 08:05:33 pm »
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I don't think they have been changed very much since then.

Then help me out.

I didn't mean it like that.

Lyoven moves sideways uneasily: "One should always mind one's words in public but I'm only a simple miner and not a town crier."

Certainly, lot's of changes have been made to the NPC's but not of that kind that would make this go away. Sorry. No I know why they used multiple choice responses in Neverwinter Nights.

In a way by saying this I thought I already was helping you out ... a bit ... no? ... not at all?  :-[

Liadan

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Re: How to better aid the new player.
« Reply #20 on: November 23, 2007, 08:14:49 pm »
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I don't think they have been changed very much since then.

Then help me out.

I didn't mean it like that.

Lyoven moves sideways uneasily: "One should always mind one's words in public but I'm only a simple miner and not a town crier."

Certainly, lot's of changes have been made to the NPC's but not of that kind that would make this go away. Sorry. No I know why they used multiple choice responses in Neverwinter Nights.

In a way by saying this I thought I already was helping you out ... a bit ... no? ... not at all?  :-[

I'll have to agree here.  Some of the quests are obvious for triggers, others aren't. I supppose if you've created teh quest it should be obvious, but somedays it's not.

perhaps include a section of common quest triggers on the forum? that way people aren't guessing how they should get to the next step of the quest. And that way, those that develop the quests could have a common ground to go from. 

does that help?

Rongar Elani

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Re: How to better aid the new player.
« Reply #21 on: November 23, 2007, 08:28:20 pm »
The NPCs should give valuable information about the current location when they get asked

"Where am I" / "What is this place" and the like.

Also they should probably have information about other NPCs' whereabouts.

"Where can I find >name<" / "Where is >name<" and so on.

These might be frequently asked questions, and I think they deserve an answer. Maybe not too detailed, and not everyone would know everyone. If I ask for a certain NPC which is located in hydlaa, none or almost none in Oja should know him. But Yonda should know Edrich, for example. I can imagine that would be a whole lot of work, but I see new players very much benefiting from that. Them, and Bilbous. :P

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zorbels

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Re: How to better aid the new player.
« Reply #22 on: November 23, 2007, 08:34:57 pm »
Make sure they know what they are getting into right at the start.

Not necessarily in the tutorial (That will most likely get skipped over) but somewhere before they actually get into the game.  The first time logging into an account for instance.
They should know it's all about RolePlay.

I agree with Waylander.

The problem with newbies (Being one myself at one point and now coming back after a long break feeling like one again :P ) is that they want the answers now. Not tomorrow or five hours from now, but right now! They are excited to play and come into it thinking it is like any other online game. When they find out that it isn't this way they tend to freak out and leave the community without ever giving the game a real chance. Basically they need a guide that breaks down the most important rules of planeshift in a ten minute read. If they want to learn more, ALL imformation should be at the end of the guide for reference. This guide will also tell them that planeshift is roleplay based and they will find it easier to have help in game if they respect the players RP in game.

Problem now is there are way to many area's to look into to find the info in planeshift. It can be quite overwhelming to a new player. Someone posts in the forums that they can't find or do something and everyone on the forums freaks out on them for not looking harder rather then just pointing the way in a nice polite manner. (That concerns me and makes me feel like this community is leaving a bad impression) I think organization is the key to this problem.

[ Sorry I am at work so I can't finish off my thoughts until later tonight. :/ I will post what I mean more in depth unless you all get my general idea.]
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Marqsaynt

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Re: How to better aid the new player.
« Reply #23 on: November 23, 2007, 11:08:20 pm »
I was actually pretty impressed with the tutorial, and even though it's a bit heavy on the dialog (and I agree that most newbies probably just skim the information) I think that most of the introduction to RP actually comes from interacting with the NPCs in the tutorial area. With each of the NPCs having a different personality and acting out various little habits and quirks, it seems to me that this is probably the start of learning RP by example so, cursory look or not, I'd like to think new players are still learning a little something about RP. In short, I'm all for the NPCs being even more interactive and conversational like Duraza suggested.

Like Bilbous mentioned, I think telling the player to find a certain well-established NPC once they arrive in Yliakum would give them at least a sense of direction and hopefully lead them to people that can actually answer questions they may have about the game. In fact, I'd even be for taking this idea one step further and giving the character a quest to find this NPC, something simple like delivering a letter once they are sent to Yliakum. If an "information" NPC was added like Liadan thought up, I can see it being a nice way to ease a new person into what they need to do in Yliakum but, even if you just sent them to Harnquist or Brado, hopefully they'd at least be able to get some of the more simple quests and be around "real" people that can actually interact with them.

Also, I think Anumesa was dead-on suggesting that the new tutorial should not just be a unique instance for people. Planeshift is a game that very much requires a person to rely on the other players around them... why not get them started early? It also could potentially cut down on people having problems with the tutorial quests, if one person is pulling the ore out before it turns to dust and can't figure out why it's not working, there may just be another newbie that has already figured out that part and tells them that they only need to let it "cook" a little bit longer.

Finally, it's a tough thing to try and tell someone how to RP, I spent my first month or two in game not really having any idea how to RP but just making sure to learn the difference between IC and OOC so people wouldn't yell at me. :P Personally I think all the RP guides in the world can only go so far, RP is one of those skills that is learned by example (hopefully good ones) and cultivation of this skill requires a bit of patience on the end of more established players. While I can't entirely blame someone for ignoring a "n00b" that is running around spamming "plz giv me stuff!," particularly if people are in the middle of a pretty serious RP, but I think that sometimes PS can be a bit elitist and needlessly "clique-y." In my mind a big step to retaining new players would actually start with the attitude of the current players... While I'll admit some new players just aren't cut out for PS (lack the patience for an alpha-game, don't care for RP, etc.) I'd like to think that there are more than a few that just need a little direction and patience to develop into the type of players this game project needs. So basically... Be nice to newbies! (Disclaimer: Not saying everyone is like this or even claiming that I haven't brushed off the occasional new player just because I wasn't in the mood. This was not intended to blame anyone just bring up something I've noticed from time to time that, like all things, could probably be improved upon.)


Edit: Now that I think of it... that "information" NPC would be kind of like Xillix back in the Vesper days where a player could just point a newcomer over to The Temple and say "Look for Xillix, she'll help you you... Just follow the jingling bells and pipe smoke." So, I change my vote to handcuffing Xillix to his computer 24/7 to teach all the newbies again about Yliakum history and how to RP. :P
« Last Edit: November 23, 2007, 11:19:00 pm by Marqsaynt »

Jeraphon

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Re: How to better aid the new player.
« Reply #24 on: November 24, 2007, 12:15:54 am »
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perhaps include a section of common quest triggers on the forum?

There is one. Someone link the quests section of the newbie guide please?

Quote
The NPCs should give valuable information about the current location when they get asked

"Where am I" / "What is this place" and the like.

They do. I had coded this previously months ago but it wasn't until someone submitted a top ten for someone to me that a bug was exposed and has been subsequently fixed. If they don't, by all means feel free to pm me some logs and I'll fix it.
« Last Edit: November 24, 2007, 12:19:08 am by Jeraphon »

Parallo

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I suggest the statue of Laanx gets turned into a statue of Parallo <3. An NPC could never replace the huge hole he left in my heart when he died  :'(

Rongar Elani

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Re: How to better aid the new player.
« Reply #26 on: November 24, 2007, 02:36:27 am »
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The NPCs should give valuable information about the current location when they get asked

"Where am I" / "What is this place" and the like.

They do. I had coded this previously months ago but it wasn't until someone submitted a top ten for someone to me that a bug was exposed and has been subsequently fixed. If they don't, by all means feel free to pm me some logs and I'll fix it.

My bad, tried with a few NPCs in Hydlaa and they do indeed. It could be a little more detailed at times, but that's probably wishful thinking. However, I tried asking about my location when I was in BD a few days ago, and they didn't get my question (nor had they ever heard of Hydlaa :P), so I thought that none of the NPCs would..

On another note, the idea about bracketing the keywords one could ask about is not to be considered, I guess? Would that make it too easy?
« Last Edit: November 24, 2007, 02:57:43 am by Rongar Elani »

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Jeraphon

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Re: How to better aid the new player.
« Reply #27 on: November 24, 2007, 04:45:12 am »
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However, I tried asking about my location when I was in BD a few days ago, and they didn't get my question (nor had they ever heard of Hydlaa), so I thought that none of the NPCs would..

Yes, we're aware that the EBD inhabitants are more limited compared to the ones in Ojaveda and Hydlaa. Honest, eventually they'll all know these things but it takes time.

And yes, highlighted keywords has been discussed and dismissed as too easy. Sorry.

SerqFeht

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Re: How to better aid the new player.
« Reply #28 on: November 24, 2007, 08:03:10 am »
Everytime I have the time, I give newbies tours. But it is difficult, sometimes. I think there should be three things that are really needed.

1. Explain PP and how to train somewhere. All the newbies want to become a wizard. Great. They don't comprehend they must kill 40 clackers with a sword to train magic first, however. Also, they should be shown some monsters that are good for noobs to kill, and actually give enough pp. Rats don't give enough.

2. All guildless people logged in less than, say, 20 hours, should automatically be enrolled in a 'Newbie Guild.' There, newbies can help each other out, and volunteers can answer tough questions. It's easier to figure something out with 20 other people in the same situation. I don't know how this can be implemented, as people must be erased from the guild when they log out, or else it gets too big.

I like the help window for newbies idea, but it will always be flashing if on the communication bar. This is why a seperate guild might work. And we could also identify newbies on sight by the guild tag.

3. Enkis spawn in Hydlaa for first three deaths. It sucks to be in Ojaveda as a newbie. Nothing to do, no easy monsters besides worthless rats, impossible to go anywhere without getting very lost...

Everytime I go to Oja, I end up leading 3 newbies back to Hydlaa. I often lose one somewhere on the way.

Oh, and Jeraphon, if I ever catch you online, I'll give you some things for npcs to say. I don't remember many now, but everytime I chat with one, I find something. For example, Brado complains aout rogues hurting his buisness, but when I ask about the rogues he doesn't understand. I don't remember the exact wording I used.
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Rongar Elani

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Re: How to better aid the new player.
« Reply #29 on: November 24, 2007, 08:11:04 am »
You have more than 10 posts, hence you can send Jeraphon a detailed PM. Likely much more detailed, than you could do in a chat, but no offense if you have an uber memory :P

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