crafting swords

[Aiken]

I'm all for the more... powerleveler folk... being the blacksmiths.  If you don't have lots of time to spend idly pounding the anvil, be a metallurgist, or a miner, or whatever new profession comes along. 

I just trained sword making from level 17 to 18. I had to hammer 120 times. At 60 seconds per hammer and allow a couple of seconds to realise that hammering has finished, you are up to 2 hours of doing nothing but hammering just for one level. Multiply this by 2 as I started today at level 16. Add a bit more time for any breaks and all I have done today is hammer.

I'll make a test blade tomorrow sometime so see what difference if any those levels have made. My last 2 blades were a 101 & 112.

In some ways the new person asking for help was a nice change.

[Parallo]

no because to even begin you have allready trained with harn. now I must ask when was the last time you have played this game? your replies seem to me of one who has not played in quite a while. I think you might want to create a new char and play this once to see the more current changes in the game also to see how much background the devs have added to it. as I have said everything is there to say that it is not only possible but more probable that one should be making a better blade than harns basic ones. also we should not forget all those magical looted blades that thieves carry and are looted by players. who made them again we must see that they are made by harn or trasok . they are the better blades that only the rich can afford. 

Unless Harn doesn't train his apprentices properly or asks them to mess things up then the things he sells should be better than someone with level one crafting. You don't have to play a frickin' game (which I do quite a bit by the way) to know that. Its common sense. Straight forward logic.

[bilbous]

Actually Harnquist likely sells those of his apprentice's weapons that are of sufficient quality to not tarnish his reputation and melts down the rest. I would guess that he rarely makes the weapons he sells and uses his time training and on working master quality weapons for special orders such a Vresa's. I think it might be good for his weapons to have a 10-15 level random difference of quality says from 42/42 to 57/57. Another option for him might be a quality selector which appears in the buy screen so you can see his selection at a certain quality/price. I guess I am drifting off topic though.

[Parallo]

Actually Harnquist likely sells those of his apprentice's weapons that are of sufficient quality to not tarnish his reputation and melts down the rest.

That is even more reason for complete beginners in the industry to make better than whats sold.

[tadill]

actually harn is not that high of a master since you only train with him to level 20 then you have to goto the winch area
and to oja to continue your training. the current system is against the RPer who chooses to do crafting. this is one area of the economy that would help balance the game. also not make a RPer a slave to the anvil. I thought this game was supposed to give a real world to the roleplayer a place where you could say you do something and actually do it 

[Parallo]

So Harn has sufficient knowledge to train as far as 20. That means that his swords should be equaled in quality by someone that isn't even at level 1 according to your argument. If that is not what you meant then what you said is of no relevance.

As for the rest of your comment, if one were a more competent smith than Harn's apprentices without even being a smith then it would be impossible to rp learning to be a smith since you would already be better than those working for the person with the monopoly over Hydlaa. If his weapons are so basic then he could not stay afloat as a business. Also, I don't see how starting out being better than other people possibly improves an rping experience.

[bilbous]

I do not see any problem with a high master just teaching beginner skills. His mastery might be unorthodox and he does not want to give away any of his secrets. Also it is possible that he will train a future level not yet implemented to those of sufficient expertise. A complete beginner's product would likely be among those that gets melted down as not fit to be marketed. So no Parallo it is not more reason.

By the way, in speaking of Harnquist's apprentices I am really referring to those pcs who under his tutelage. He may well have current npc students but until one is implemented they can be ignored.

[Parallo]

He said that that which is on sale should be less than the worst smith can make so, yes it is more reason against that.

[Jeraphon]

So Harn has sufficient knowledge to train as far as 20.

His knowledge to train as far as 20 and no further isn't an indication of his incompetence, but rather his philosophy with regard to training others. He chooses to spend his time teaching people the basics, as opposed to teaching those who know more advanced things. Do people choose to teach elementary school instead of high school because they're less competent? (Rhetorical question: let's not derail this thread any further than it's gone.)

[Aiken]

As for the rest of your comment, if one were a more competent smith than Harn's apprentices without even being a smith then it would be impossible to rp learning to be a smith since you would already be better than those working for the person with the monopoly over Hydlaa. If his weapons are so basic then he could not stay afloat as a business. Also, I don't see how starting out being better than other people possibly improves an rping experience.

Harn's weapons are basic. A 50/50 weapon is the base model. Mostly the only thing worse is something that is worn from use. A person with level 0 blacksmith and level 0 sword making can make better swords than what Harnquists sells. He does not sell the good stuff to the public. Neither does Trasok. Either their appentices are no good or they only sells us the rejects.

Once I worked out the deal with quality vs damage I gave up on store bought weapons and have only used crafted since. Even a Q60 will hit slightly harder and last longer than what you can buy from a npc. What the player market needs is the new and low level players to realise they can get better than most looted or what a npc will sell them.

[Jawn]

Once I worked out the deal with quality vs damage I gave up on store bought weapons and have only used crafted since. Even a Q60 will hit slightly harder and last longer than what you can buy from a npc. What the player market needs is the new and low level players to realise they can get better than most looted or what a npc will sell them.

I try to sell some of my 60-80Q swords out at bargain prices, sometimes, to do just that: (hopefully) introduce the new people to crafted weapons quality. (but sometimes i'm sure it's more experienced players that scoop them up for the price.... maybe i need a new approach to that...)

But then.... i also make my own stocks, so i can afford to do that, in a way, more than someone else who needs to buy their stocks...

.

[Parallo]

So you are saying that the swords Harnquist makes are some sort of perplexing bend in the physical laws of Yliakum because they are worse than the worst swords that anyone can make. Am I the only one that sees a problem with Harnquist selling swords that are so bad an idiot with no training can't help but make better ones?

[Zan]

Levels are not the only important factors when it comes to crafting, the resource quality and tools used also count, aside from a bit of luck. Right now someone with a pretty low level (0-5) can equal Harnquist's work. Not because of their skill but by using the high quality stock that is available. Using low quality stock and depending only on their skill, they'll produce worse weapons.

What needs to happen is the NPC prices of weapons have to rise to be more representative for the work spent to craft such a weapon, that way a crafter can make some decent tria. Essentially, the same effort spent doing any profitable task in-game should yield more or less the same amount of tria and PP on a similar skill level. Last time I checked Devs are working on balancing things out so let them work and then re-evaluate what they did.

[Xillix Queen of Fools]

How about taking the npcs out of the business?

[Zan]

I wouldn't mind that .. though I would keep them around for buying up everything. Else we just get a whole lot of junk everywhere.