Practice Points only for 'effective' spells

[TymTheEnchanter]

This idea is at least a simple concept but, I know from experience, that it is not necessarily simple to implement. Basically I would like to see practice points for spells awarded only when the spell cast is used in the correct context, i.e. a situation in which it has some benefit.

The reason this only really applies to spells, is that any other skill already needs to be used in context to gain practice points (Weapon skills require you to use the type of weapon, mining requires successful mining attempt and so on).

What I dislike seeing is players standing outside the Magic Shop and casting the same spell many times just to get the practice points for the skill level. It's not really in the RP spirit I think.

Obviously the issue is how do you determine context?

For some spells this is easy. Attack and healing spells simply need to affect the target in the way the spell was intended to work, i.e. damage or heal the target. The real problem comes with spells such as buffing spells and other preemptive spells such as Armour (sorry I'm English ) and the like. The only solution I can think of, at present, is to award retrospective practice points for these spells. As an example, casting an Armour spell would only result in practice points being awarded if the target of the spell was in combat (or another situation in which Armour would be useful such as a rock fall) during the spell's duration; in which case the caster gets the practice points as the spell was cast in context. Obviously, if the spell has a really short duration then this makes it harder for the novice spellcatser to gain practice points as it required much more precise timing to be cast at the 'right' time, but is that really a problem or actually a fact of life?

This represents learning about when it is the right spell to cast, which is, I think, one of the biggest deciding factors in what makes a truly great spellcaster, not the amount of spells they know of the amount of Mana they have.

What do you think?

[bilbous]

I have several thoughts about this, not all connected. Miners get a little xp even with unsuccessful attempts. They may even get practice points but it has been a while since I practiced mining. I am uncertain as to whether magic garners any xp on its own although casting certainly gives practice points. Healing spells could be limited in the way you suggest but attack spells are more problematic. This is because there are cases where the use is entirely appropriate but the effect is nullified by the targets defense. I would suggest that spells such as Armor  or Defensive Wind would qualify for the reward every time they made a difference and not just because you were in combat. Of course this would mean that if you have sufficient armor and skill to use it such a spell would likely have little or not effect. Something like Flame Spire could reward each time it did damage. However if you start down this road you need to be careful that you do not make it impossible to practice the various ways.

[Mordraugion]

Nice idea perhaps instead of giving the pp only on effective use, just make it a massive difference ie. get 50pp if flamespire is used in combat and does damage  but only 50 exp if just standing around casting aimlessly. in other words to have to cast non effective spells 200 times to get the same pp as one effective cast

[TymTheEnchanter]

It is worth making a distinction between experience and practice, although both should be awarded in context.
Miners do indeed get 1 xp for a failed mining attempt, but the do not get any practice points for the same. That said the awarding of practice points for the non magical skills seems perfectly sensible and in context as they have to be successfully used to gain practice points and the means for judging 'successful' and 'appropriate' use are much simpler, the attempt tends to fail or succeed.

The real thrust of this idea is for magic, and spells, as bilbous says do not (AFAIK) award any XP but do award practice points when cast. You could do, as with mining, award 1 xp every time a spell is cast, but never any practice points, and when a spell is used in context award a greater number of xp OR practice points depending on what stage of learning the character is at. Personally I think that the award for all training should be practice points only but that is a different idea.

I disagree that attack spells are problematic, as the only requirement is that they are successfully cast against a viable target which can be determined at the time of casting so any defenses the target has are not relevant. It doesn't need to damage the target to be appropriately cast, nor does it need to be in combat (although this will likely be the result if that target survives ). For more complex cases, (eg the Target Nothing threat in this wishlist) this can instead be determined based on whether or not you actually affect/damage it as the object is static in the world and will not have variable defenses. The type of target you use dictates the means of determining appropriateness. This avoids some of the problems associated with making ways too hard to train as it is only the context in which the spell is cast that is important not its actual effect. (the context of a healing spell is an injured target).