[Workaround] Crash after char selection (CTD)

[ShadowD]

Hi there,

Lately I am unable to play planeshift.

After successfully starting the client, logging into the 'fragnetics'-server and selecting my character, the PSclient crashes and I am thrown back to the desktop. This happens always when the loading-bar reaches about 30% (after the character selection screen)

Any hints, what's causing the trouble, would be nice 

System specs:
AMD Athlon64X2 4800
8 GB RAM
GeFoce 8600GT(512MB) (latest NVidia dirver)
OS: vanilla Fedora 8 (64bit) updated

Crash-output from shell:

Code: [Select]


[....]

crystalspace.maploader.parse.image:
  Could not open image file 'grasstuft01.dds' on VFS!

crystalspace.maploader.parse.texture:
  Couldn't load image 'grasstuft01.dds', using error texture instead!

crystalspace.proctex.pdlight:
  Could not find light with ID
  '2affffffa91effffff8affffffa52c63fffffff146ffffff823cfffffff9fffffff22fffffff
  b622'
Map hybdr loaded successfully in 482ms
Map hysewers loaded successfully in 167ms
*** glibc detected *** ./psc: free(): invalid next size (normal): 0x00000000013e7490 ***
======= Backtrace: =========
/lib64/libc.so.6[0x3df6072832]
/lib64/libc.so.6(cfree+0x8c)[0x3df6075f2c]
./psc[0xa1e187]
./psc[0xa1eb78]
./psc[0xc5e9dd]
/lib64/libpthread.so.0[0x3df6c06407]
/lib64/libc.so.6(clone+0x6d)[0x3df60d4b0d]
======= Memory map: ========
00400000-00f5b000 r-xp 00000000 08:11 12420005                           /home/sk/Games/planeshift/PlaneShift/psc
0105a000-01304000 rw-p 00b5a000 08:11 12420005                           /home/sk/Games/planeshift/PlaneShift/psc
01304000-24177000 rw-p 01304000 00:00 0                                  [heap]
40002000-40004000 rwxp 00000000 00:10 626                                /dev/zero
40004000-40078000 rw-p 00000000 00:10 626                                /dev/zero
40078000-40079000 ---p 40078000 00:00 0
40079000-40a79000 rwxp 40079000 00:00 0
40a79000-40a7a000 ---p 40a79000 00:00 0
40a7a000-4147a000 rwxp 40a7a000 00:00 0
4147a000-4147b000 ---p 4147a000 00:00 0
4147b000-41e7b000 rwxp 4147b000 00:00 0
41e7b000-41e7c000 ---p 41e7b000 00:00 0
41e7c000-4287c000 rwxp 41e7c000 00:00 0
35f6e00000-35f6e01000 r-xp 00000000 08:02 6783328                        /usr/lib64/nvidia/tls/libnvidia-tls.so.169.07
35f6e01000-35f6f00000 ---p 00001000 08:02 6783328                        /usr/lib64/nvidia/tls/libnvidia-tls.so.169.07
35f6f00000-35f6f01000 rw-p 00000000 08:02 6783328                        /usr/lib64/nvidia/tls/libnvidia-tls.so.169.07
35f7000000-35f78f3000 r-xp 00000000 08:02 6783317                        /usr/lib64/nvidia/libGLcore.so.169.07
35f78f3000-35f79f3000 ---p 008f3000 08:02 6783317                        /usr/lib64/nvidia/libGLcore.so.169.07
35f79f3000-35f7b5a000 rwxp 008f3000 08:02 6783317                        /usr/lib64/nvidia/libGLcore.so.169.07
35f7b5a000-35f7b61000 rwxp 35f7b5a000 00:00 0
35f8400000-35f8499000 r-xp 00000000 08:02 6783980                        /usr/lib64/nvidia/libGL.so.169.07
35f8499000-35f8598000 ---p 00099000 08:02 6783980                        /usr/lib64/nvidia/libGL.so.169.07
35f8598000-35f85cc000 rwxp 00098000 08:02 6783980                        /usr/lib64/nvidia/libGL.so.169.07
35f85cc000-35f85ce000 rwxp 35f85cc000 00:00 0
35fb800000-35fb810000 r-xp 00000000 08:02 6200246                        /usr/lib64/libXpm.so.4.11.0
35fb810000-35fba10000 ---p 00010000 08:02 6200246                        /usr/lib64/libXpm.so.4.11.0
35fba10000-35fba11000 rw-p 00010000 08:02 6200246                        /usr/lib64/libXpm.so.4.11.0
3df4e00000-3df4e1b000 r-xp 00000000 08:02 2752562                        /lib64/ld-2.7.so
3df501a000-3df501b000 r--p 0001a000 08:02 2752562                        /lib64/ld-2.7.so
3df501b000-3df501c000 rw-p 0001b000 08:02 2752562                        /lib64/ld-2.7.so
3df6000000-3df614d000 r-xp 00000000 08:02 2752564                        /lib64/libc-2.7.so
3df614d000-3df634d000 ---p 0014d000 08:02 2752564                        /lib64/libc-2.7.so
3df634d000-3df6351000 r--p 0014d000 08:02 2752564                        /lib64/libc-2.7.so
3df6351000-3df6352000 rw-p 00151000 08:02 2752564                        /lib64/libc-2.7.so
3df6352000-3df6357000 rw-p 3df6352000 00:00 0
3df6400000-3df6482000 r-xp 00000000 08:02 2752566                        /lib64/libm-2.7.so
3df6482000-3df6681000 ---p 00082000 08:02 2752566                        /lib64/libm-2.7.so
3df6681000-3df6682000 r--p 00081000 08:02 2752566                        /lib64/libm-2.7.so
3df6682000-3df6683000 rw-p 00082000 08:02 2752566                        /lib64/libm-2.7.so
3df6800000-3df6802000 r-xp 00000000 08:02 2752568                        /lib64/libdl-2.7.so
3df6802000-3df6a02000 ---p 00002000 08:02 2752568                        /lib64/libdl-2.7.so
3df6a02000-3df6a03000 r--p 00002000 08:02 2752568                        /lib64/libdl-2.7.so
3df6a03000-3df6a04000 rw-p 00003000 08:02 2752568                        /lib64/libdl-2.7.so
3df6c00000-3df6c16000 r-xp 00000000 08:02 2752814                        /lib64/libpthread-2.7.so
3df6c16000-3df6e15000 ---p 00016000 08:02 2752814                        /lib64/libpthread-2.7.so
3df6e15000-3df6e16000 r--p 00015000 08:02 2752814                        /lib64/libpthread-2.7.so
3df6e16000-3df6e17000 rw-p 00016000 08:02 2752814                        /lib64/libpthread-2.7.so
3df6e17000-3df6e1b000 rw-p 3df6e17000 00:00 0
3df7000000-3df7014000 r-xp 00000000 08:02 2752601                        /lib64/libz.so.1.2.3
3df7014000-3df7213000 ---p 00014000 08:02 2752601                        /lib64/libz.so.1.2.3
3df7213000-3df7214000 rw-p 00013000 08:02 2752601                        /lib64/libz.so.1.2.3
3dfac00000-3dfac09000 r-xp 00000000 08:02 6214087                        /usr/lib64/libXrender.so.1.3.0
3dfac09000-3dfae08000 ---p 00009000 08:02 6214087                        /usr/lib64/libXrender.so.1.3.0
3dfae08000-3dfae09000 rw-p 00008000 08:02 6214087                        /usr/lib64/libXrender.so.1.3.0
3dfbc00000-3dfbc05000 r-xp 00000000 08:02 6214095                        /usr/lib64/libXfixes.so.3.1.0
3dfbc05000-3dfbe04000 ---p 00005000 08:02 6214095                        /usr/lib64/libXfixes.so.3.1.0
3dfbe04000-3dfbe05000 rw-p 00004000 08:02 6214095                        /usr/lib64/libXfixes.so.3.1.0
3dfc400000-3dfc409000 r-xp 00000000 08:02 6214096                        /usr/lib64/libXcursor.so.1.0.2
3dfc409000-3dfc608000 ---p 00009000 08:02 6214096                        /usr/lib64/libXcursor.so.1.0.2
3dfc608000-3dfc609000 rw-p 00008000 08:02 6214096                        /usr/lib64/libXcursor.so.1.0.2
3dff000000-3dff009000 r-xp 00000000 08:02 6214102                        /usr/lib64/libSM.so.6.0.0
3dff009000-3dff209000 ---p 00009000 08:02 6214102                        /usr/lib64/libSM.so.6.0.0
3dff209000-3dff20a000 rw-p 00009000 08:02 6214102                        /usr/lib64/libSM.so.6.0.0
3dff400000-3dff417000 r-xp 00000000 08:02 6213412                        /usr/lib64/libICE.so.6.3.0
3dff417000-3dff616000 ---p 00017000 08:02 6213412                        /usr/lib64/libICE.so.6.3.0
3dff616000-3dff617000 rw-p 00016000 08:02 6213412                        /usr/lib64/libICE.so.6.3.0
3dff617000-3dff61b000 rw-p 3dff617000 00:00 0
3dffc00000-3dffc17000 r-xp 00000000 08:02 6199743                        /usr/lib64/libXmu.so.6.2.0
3dffc17000-3dffe16000 ---p 00017000 08:02 6199743                        /usr/lib64/libXmu.so.6.2.0
3dffe16000-3dffe18000 rw-p 00016000 08:02 6199743                        /usr/lib64/libXmu.so.6.2.0
3e01c00000-3e01c11000 r-xp 00000000 08:02 2752841                        /lib64/libresolv-2.7.so
3e01c11000-3e01e11000 ---p 00011000 08:02 2752841                        /lib64/libresolv-2.7.so
3e01e11000-3e01e12000 r--p 00011000 08:02 2752841                        /lib64/libresolv-2.7.so
3e01e12000-3e01e13000 rw-p 00012000 08:02 2752841                        /lib64/libresolv-2.7.so
3e01e13000-3e01e15000 rw-p 3e01e13000 00:00 0
3e06400000-3e064d7000 r-xp 00000000 08:02 2752846                        /lib64/libasound.so.2.0.0
3e064d7000-3e066d7000 ---p 000d7000 08:02 2752846                        /lib64/libasound.so.2.0.0
3e066d7000-3e066df000 rw-p 000d7000 08:02 2752846                        /lib64/libasound.so.2.0.0
2aaaaaaab000-2aaaaaaae000 rw-p 2aaaaaaab000 00:00 0
2aaaaaac4000-2aaaaaac6000 rw-p 2aaaaaac4000 00:00 0
2aaaaaac6000-2aaaaabc8000 r-xp 00000000 08:11 12419520                   /home/sk/Games/planeshift/PlaneShift/libs/libX11.so.6
2aaaaabc8000-2aaaaacc8000 ---p 00102000 08:11 12419520                   /home/sk/Games/planeshift/PlaneShift/libs/libX11.so.6
2aaaaacc8000-2aaaaaccf000 rw-p 00102000 08:11 12419520                   /home/sk/Games/planeshift/PlaneShift/libs/libX11.so.6
2aaaaaccf000-2aaaaacf2000 r-xp 00000000 08:11 12419531                   /home/sk/Games/planeshift/PlaneShift/libs/libpng12.so.0
2aaaaacf2000-2aaaaadf1000 ---p 00023000 08:11 12419531                   /home/sk/Games/planeshift/PlaneShift/libs/libpng12.so.0
2aaaaadf1000-2aaaaadf2000 rw-p 00022000 08:11 12419531                   /home/sk/Games/planeshift/PlaneShift/libs/libpng12.so.0
2aaaaadf2000-2aaaaae76000 r-xp 00000000 08:11 12419532                   /home/sk/Games/planeshift/PlaneShift/libs/libfreetype.so.6
2aaaaae76000-2aaaaaf76000 ---p 00084000 08:11 12419532                   /home/sk/Games/planeshift/PlaneShift/libs/libfreetype.so.6
2aaaaaf76000-2aaaaaf7b000 rw-p 00084000 08:11 12419532                   /home/sk/Games/planeshift/PlaneShift/libs/libfreetype.so.6
2aaaaaf7b000-2aaaaaf7c000 rw-p 2aaaaaf7b000 00:00 0
2aaaaaf7c000-2aaaaaf8c000 r-xp 00000000 08:11 12419514                   /home/sk/Games/planeshift/PlaneShift/libs/libXext.so.6
2aaaaaf8c000-2aaaab08c000 ---p 00010000 08:11 12419514                   /home/sk/Games/planeshift/PlaneShift/libs/libXext.so.6
2aaaab08c000-2aaaab08d000 rw-p 00010000 08:11 12419514                   /home/sk/Games/planeshift/PlaneShift/libs/libXext.so.6
2aaaab08d000-2aaaab0ee000 r-xp 00000000 08:11 12419521                   /home/sk/Games/planeshift/PlaneShift/libs/libXaw.so.7
2aaaab0ee000-2aaaab1ee000 ---p 00061000 08:11 12419521                   /home/sk/Games/planeshift/PlaneShift/libs/libXaw.so.7
2aaaab1ee000-2aaaab1f9000 rw-p 00061000 08:11 12419521                   /home/sk/Games/planeshift/PlaneShift/libs/libXaw.so.7
2aaaab1f9000-2aaaab253000 r-xp 00000000 08:11 12419529                   /home/sk/Games/planeshift/PlaneShift/libs/libXt.so.6
2aaaab253000-2aaaab352000 ---p 0005a000 08:11 12419529                   /home/sk/Games/planeshift/PlaneShift/libs/libXt.so.6
2aaaab352000-2aaaab358000 rw-p 00059000 08:11 12419529                   /home/sk/Games/planeshift/PlaneShift/libs/libXt.so.6
2aaaab358000-2aaaab35a000 rw-p 2aaaab358000 00:00 0
2aaaab35a000-2aaaab361000 r-xp 00000000 08:11 12419513                   /home/sk/Games/planeshift/PlaneShift/libs/libvorbisfile.so.3
2aaaab361000-2aaaab460000 ---p 00007000 08:11 12419513                   /home/sk/Games/planeshift/PlaneShift/libs/libvorbisfile.so.3
2aaaab460000-2aaaab461000 rw-p 00006000 08:11 12419513                   /home/sk/Games/planeshift/PlaneShift/libs/libvorbisfile.so.3
2aaaab461000-2aaaab482000 r-xp 00000000 08:11 12419519                   /home/sk/Games/planeshift/PlaneShift/libs/libjpeg.so.62
2aaaab482000-2aaaab582000 ---p 00021000 08:11 12419519                   /home/sk/Games/planeshift/PlaneShift/libs/libjpeg.so.62
2aaaab582000-2aaaab583000 rw-p 00021000 08:11 12419519                   /home/sk/Games/planeshift/PlaneShift/libs/libjpeg.so.62
2aaaab583000-2aaaab602000 r-xp 00000000 08:11 12419523                   /home/sk/Games/planeshift/PlaneShift/libs/libcal3d.so.12
2aaaab602000-2aaaab701000 ---p 0007f000 08:11 12419523                   /home/sk/Games/planeshift/PlaneShift/libs/libcal3d.so.12
2aaaab701000-2aaaab704000 rw-p 0007e000 08:11 12419523                   /home/sk/Games/planeshift/PlaneShift/libs/libcal3d.so.12
2aaaab704000-2aaaab705000 rw-p 2aaaab704000 00:00 0
2aaaab705000-2aaaab7e8000 r-xp 00000000 08:11 12419530                   /home/sk/Games/planeshift/PlaneShift/libs/libstdc++.so.6
2aaaab7e8000-2aaaab8e8000 ---p 000e3000 08:11 12419530                   /home/sk/Games/planeshift/PlaneShift/libs/libstdc++.so.6
2aaaab8e8000-2aaaab8ee000 r--p 000e3000 08:11 12419530                   /home/sk/Games/planeshift/PlaneShift/libs/libstdc++.so.6
2aaaab8ee000-2aaaab8f1000 rw-p 000e9000 08:11 12419530                   /home/sk/Games/planeshift/PlaneShift/libs/libstdc++.so.6
2aaaab8f1000-2aaaab903000 rw-p 2aaaab8f1000 00:00 0
2aaaab903000-2aaaab90f000 r-xp 00000000 08:11 12419526                   /home/sk/Games/planeshift/PlaneShift/libs/libgcc_s.so.1
2aaaab90f000-2aaaaba0f000 ---p 0000c000 08:11 12419526                   /home/sk/Games/planeshift/PlaneShift/libs/libgcc_s.so.1
2aaaaba0f000-2aaaaba10000 rw-p 0000c000 08:11 12419526                   /home/sk/Games/planeshift/PlaneShift/libs/libgcc_s.so.1
2aaaaba10000-2aaaaba12000 rw-p 2aaaaba10000 00:00 0
2aaaaba12000-2aaaaba14000 r-xp 00000000 08:11 12419511                   /home/sk/Games/planeshift/PlaneShift/libs/libXau.so.6
2aaaaba14000-2aaaabb14000 ---p 00002000 08:11 12419511                   /home/sk/Games/planeshift/PlaneShift/libs/libXau.so.6
2aaaabb14000-2aaaabb15000 rw-p 00002000 08:11 12419511                   /home/sk/Games/planeshift/PlaneShift/libs/libXau.so.6
2aaaabb15000-2aaaabb1a000 r-xp 00000000 08:11 12419522                   /home/sk/Games/planeshift/PlaneShift/libs/libXdmcp.so.6
2aaaabb1a000-2aaaabc19000 ---p 00005000 08:11 12419522                   /home/sk/Games/planeshift/PlaneShift/libs/libXdmcp.so.6
2aaaabc19000-2aaaabc1a000 rw-p 00004000 08:11 12419522                   /home/sk/Games/planeshift/PlaneShift/libs/libXdmcp.so.6
2aaaabc1a000-2aaaabc1c000 rw-p 2aaaabc1a000 00:00 0
2aaaabc1c000-2aaaabc39000 r-xp 00000000 08:11 12419518                   /home/sk/Games/planeshift/PlaneShift/libs/libvorbis.so.0
2aaaabc39000-2aaaabd38000 ---p 0001d000 08:11 12419518                   /home/sk/Games/planeshift/PlaneShift/libs/libvorbis.so.0
2aaaabd38000-2aaaabd47000 rw-p 0001c000 08:11 12419518                   /home/sk/Games/planeshift/PlaneShift/libs/libvorbis.so.0
2aaaabd47000-2aaaabd4c000 r-xp 00000000 08:11 12419528                   /home/sk/Games/planeshift/PlaneShift/libs/libogg.so.0
2aaaabd4c000-2aaaabe4b000 ---p 00005000 08:11 12419528                   /home/sk/Games/planeshift/PlaneShift/libs/libogg.so.0
2aaaabe4b000-2aaaabe4c000 rw-p 00004000 08:11 12419528                   /home/sk/Games/planeshift/PlaneShift/libs/libogg.so.0
2aaaabe4c000-2aaaabec3000 rw-p 2aaaabe4c000 00:00 0
2aaaabec4000-2aaaabf25000 rw-p 2aaaabec4000 00:00 0
2aaaabf25000-2aaab097f000 r--p 00000000 08:02 6195839                    /usr/lib/locale/locale-archive
2aaab097f000-2aaab0986000 r--s 00000000 08:02 6291966                    /usr/lib64/gconv/gconv-modules.cache
2aaab0986000-2aaab0987000 rw-p 2aaab0986000 00:00 0
2aaab099e000-2aaab09a8000 r-xp 00000000 08:02 2752540                    /lib64/libnss_files-2.7.so
2aaab09a8000-2aaab0ba7000 ---p 0000a000 08:02 2752540                    /lib64/libnss_files-2.7.so
2aaab0ba7000-2aaab0ba8000 r--p 00009000 08:02 2752540                    /lib64/libnss_files-2.7.so
2aaab0ba8000-2aaab0ba9000 rw-p 0000a000 08:02 2752540                    /lib64/libnss_files-2.7.so
2aaab0ba9000-2aaab0bcb000 rw-s 00000000 00:09 65536                      /SYSV00000000 (deleted)
2aaab0bcb000-2aaab0bee000 rw-p 2aaab0bcb000 00:00 0
2aaab0bee000-2aaab0bef000 rw-s fd060000 00:10 816                        /dev/nvidia0
2aaab0bef000-2aaab0c30000 rw-p 2aaab0bef000 00:00 0
2aaab0c30000-2aaab0c31000 rw-s 00000000 00:09 5701660                    /SYSV00000000 (deleted)
2aaab0c31000-2aaab0c5b000 rw-p 2aaab0c31000 00:00 0
2aaab0c5b000-2aaab0c5c000 rw-s 2223bb000 00:10 816                       /dev/nvidia0
2aaab0c5c000-2aaab0c5d000 rw-s fd641000 00:10 816                        /dev/nvidia0
2aaab0c5d000-2aaab0c5e000 rw-s 221dec000 00:10 816                       /dev/nvidia0
2aaab0c5e000-2aaab0c5f000 rw-s fd642000 00:10 816                        /dev/nvidia0
2aaab0c7f000-2aaab0cbf000 rw-s 1530d6000 00:10 816                       /dev/nvidia0
2aaab0cbf000-2aaab0cc0000 rw-s fdc08000 00:10 816                        /dev/nvidia0
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2aaabaa5a000-2aaabaaea000 rw-p 2aaabaa5a000 00:00 0
2aaabab8f000-2aaababff000 rw-p 2aaabab8f000 00:00 0
2aaabaca4000-2aaabad04000 rw-p 2aaabaca4000 00:00 0
2aaabada9000-2aaabae09000 rw-p 2aaabada9000 00:00 0
2aaabaeae000-2aaabaede000 rw-p 2aaabaeae000 00:00 0
2aaabaf19000-2aaabbfe9000 rw-p 2aaabaf19000 00:00 0
2aaabc000000-2aaabd32a000 rw-p 2aaabc000000 00:00 0
2aaabd32a000-2aaac0000000 ---p 2aaabd32a000 00:00 0
2aaac0000000-2aaac14b2000 rw-p 2aaac0000000 00:00 0
2aaac14b4000-2aaac14b5000 rw-s 00000000 00:09 5931038                    /SYSV00000000 (deleted)
2aaac14b5000-2aaac1535000 rw-s 17b176000 00:10 816                       /dev/nvidia0



Part 2 - see next post in thread

[ShadowD]

PART 2

Code: [Select]


[...]

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2aaad1bb1000-2aaad1d51000 rw-p 2aaad1bb1000 00:00 0
2aaad1d55000-2aaad1da5000 rw-p 2aaad1d55000 00:00 0
2aaad1db4000-2aaad1f64000 rw-p 2aaad1db4000 00:00 0
2aaad1f69000-2aaad20a9000 rw-p 2aaad1f69000 00:00 0
2aaad20ae000-2aaad27be000 rw-p 2aaad20ae000 00:00 0
2aaad27be000-2aaad29be000 rw-s 120e10000 00:10 816                       /dev/nvidia0
2aaad29be000-2aaad9f8f000 rw-p 2aaad29be000 00:00 0
7fff80b62000-7fff80b7c000 rwxp 7ffffffe4000 00:00 0                      [stack]
7fff80b7c000-7fff80b7d000 rw-p 7fffffffe000 00:00 0
7fff80bfe000-7fff80c00000 r-xp 7fff80bfe000 00:00 0                      [vdso]
ffffffffff600000-ffffffffff601000 r-xp 00000000 00:00 0                  [vsyscall]
Abgebrochen



[Caarrie]

try

Code: [Select]

export MALLOC_CHECK_=0

[ThomPhoenix]

It's CTD by the way, not CDT

[ShadowD]

Wow.

An answer in really short time 

And it solves the problem.

Thank's alot

Btw.  (being a bit nosy...)
Why is it neccesary to use the 'export MALLOC_CHECK_=0'

[ShadowD]

It's CTD by the way, not CDT

me bad....

[ShadowD]

...
And it solves the problem.

Sadly, this only postpones the CTD
I'll try the bugtracker:   http://bugs.hydlaa.com/

 

[Caarrie]

the bug tracker is NOT for local bugs like this. please do not report it there the bug will be closed and you will get no replys there to help you.

[ShadowD]

Ok.

Since the bugtracker is not an option, how to proceed with these CTD's ?

Any help would be nice :-)

[ShadowD]

Update:

I disabled the 'load all maps', 'Keep maps loaded' and 'Preload Modles'

Now I could enter the game, walk some seconds, before a CTD occurs.

[ShadowD]

These random crashes (memory management whoes) are probably caused by the 'OSS-sound'-implementation in Planeshift.

siehe psclient.cfg

Code: [Select]

; Linux - OSS sound system
SndSys.Driver = crystalspace.sndsys.software.driver.oss

Deactivated the sound via setup ... no random crashes so far.

[Induane]

adding

Code: [Select]

SndSys.Driver.OSS.SoundBufferms=150
and re-enabling OSS should work.  I've found it fixes many/most of the random crashyness with using OSS.  Also why use OSS when there is ALSA?