Deity Poll

[Suno_Regin]

Be like certain Dakkru followers, interrogate the crap out of them until they actually stab them with a knife to end their nagging.

[bilbous]

Isn't there some midway between atheism and deism? I may not worship the gods but I do not generally go around denying they exist. I think it should be possible to go about your business without regard to them unless they choose to manifest themselves. It would seem only polite to reply in kind should some pious person proffer their gods blessing on you "May Laanx scare the shadows from your path" can be responded to by "and yours as well." As far as I am concerned my religion is nobodies business unless I choose to relate it. If that means I am mistaken for an adherent of the Black Flame from time to time it's followers will likely be amused but my lack of any specific knowledge may soon disprove the notion.

Would you suggest that in Yliakum the norm is to wear the emblem of your faith prominently and if so how is discrimination based on it prevented? If everyone is fanatically devoted to their deity then who are the weirdos in the sewer and why are they called Fanatics?

[Jeraphon]

I may not worship the gods but I do not generally go around denying they exist.

Nor can you. The PS settings states that the gods have been present in Yliakum and it's well-documented - people have seen them. Atheism in the PS sense is exactly as you stated it - not worshipping any of the known gods. People who deny their existence are considered fools because they've been seen with people's own eyes. It's one thing to say something like "I'm not a scientologist" but downright foolishness to say something like "L. Ron Hubbard wasn't a real person and never existed."

As far as I am concerned my religion is nobodies business unless I choose to relate it.

That's not outside settings. Some don't discuss religion, merely act according to its tenets.

I don't suggest everyone has to be a zealot for their faith. However, based on one's actions others should be able to make a good guess. A worshipper of Talad would give to the poor without hesitation. A worshipper of Laanx would tell them to be more self-reliant, or give if they think generosity is a step to being a better self, and be very showy about giving. A worshipper of Xiosia might give a poor person food instead of tria. A worshipper of Dakkru would tell them to quit begging and make something of their life. An atheist might do any or none of these, and just act on whims basically. They'd be seen as chaotic individuals.

Who are the Fanatics? I'll leave that for you to discover. 

[Marqsaynt]

I think anyone that RPs atheism as a belief that the gods don't exist at all is almost certainly being a "lazy RPer" (though I can imagine at least one or two RPs where it could possibly work). But, I don't think that a character that RPed an indifference or even an outright defiance to deities would necessarily have to be an "outcast," particularly given the generally charming and social nature of the Diaboli race. However, to RP a dislike of the gods without consequences in my opinion would be just as lazy as a person that RPs that the gods don't exist.

I just see the consequences for a character having to do more with them personally dealing with the god's disdain than with them having to deal with some "witch hunt" mentality and social punishment. Yliakum is supposed to be a pretty well integrated society and by having the majority of Diaboli (and arguably Klyros) "looked down upon" and "pitied" by virtually everyone else seems to me to go against the general established settings of the realm.

For my two cents, if Jeraphon added and/or "rebel" to the list of "outsider and loner," and got rid of that "who other people pity" line, I think our views on the subject would line up fairly closely. 

[bilbous]

So it would be against the settings for one who has lived a miserable life for whatever reason to fear and hate all the gods? He must pick one to love in his secret heart? Certainly such a one would be a loner, an, as you say, outcast but if he is intelligent he might well be able to worm his way into any given society to accomplish his own ends.

I just don't see how these arbitrary distinctions would work in practice. I can easily imagine a farmer praying to Xiosa for a good crop, Laanx for more effective methods of sowing and reaping, giving thanks to Talad for sending the neighbors to help in the harvest and whatever. It may well be that he would primarily attend Xiosa's prayers but why would he not also wish to curry favor with the others?

I just do not understand how you can segment the populace and still expect no friction between them.

The gods seem kind of chaotic to me and the choice of which to follow seems completely arbitrary.

[Liadan]

I'm more curious than anything else.

In this polytheist society, that is having more than one god, would it not be unusual for a character to solely give reverence to only one? Presumably, there would have to be one dominate god that everyone reveres, but wouldn't they also have a collection of minor deities on the side?  I am hesitant to use the word worship...revere reflects the nature that the RP works for now with following a god.

Like what bilbous said, the gods you serve would be dictated by your way of life, and perhaps a scholar would only worship one (or none at all, as they so frequently do), but a farmer would have many because it gives him/her comfort in knowing that there are some deities to aid with his/her crops.  As much as I hate to point this out, but the notion of 'only one' is a post-modernist ideal, which we bring into the game settings as players.  Yes, there maybe some who chose to only have one, but there may be others who conform to notion that 'more is better, all is best', as if worshiping all the gods would give them a leg-up on everyone else. 

And now I'm even more curious. When you mention worshiping, how is this done? Since there is only the Laanx Temple that I know of, how are the other gods worshiped? Do the priests partake in celibacy? Are there icons and images? are there saints (not sure of the Yliakum-ism for it) that are also prayed to? Is there a liturgy? How do couples of different religions get married? is it a religion sanctioned event? Or is it state-sanctioned? Are there different sects with the various worshiping of the gods? Are there monasteries and convents for those who wish to fully devote their lives?

[Zan]

Isn't it possible for atheists to slip between the cracks as far as other players are concerned? They may have detrimental consequences from the gods, but surely not from other players? If I worship Laanx and you don't, I'm not going to shun you more because you don't worship Talad either, I'm only going to care that you don't worship the same god I do... Or if you do worship Talad I'm not going to say, "At least he's not an atheist."

Don't get me wrong, I'm not saying you're not right about people using atheism as a cop-out, but it seems a bit of a stretch to say that you would be shunned by society... How would they even know? Do they follow you around to see if you ever enter any temples? I doubt it... The Laanx worshipers aren't going to interrogate everyone they meet just to make sure that they do, at least, worship somebody...

Actually, Grayne tends to ask the questions straightforward, so he does interrogate everyone he meets. And he does use the phrase "At least he's not an atheist." together with a rolling of his eyes

[Jeraphon]

And now I'm even more curious. When you mention worshiping, how is this done? Since there is only the Laanx Temple that I know of, how are the other gods worshiped? Do the priests partake in celibacy? Are there icons and images?

These are all great questions for the "what the settings team needs from you" thread...

But first, "there is only the Laanx Temple that I know of" - that's because Laanx is the patron deity of Hydlaa. The settings makes reference to a "temple of Talad" but it's not in Hydlaa. As for Xiosia and Dakkru, they are considered relatively new deities who just made themselves known, so it'll take time for places of worship to be made. Still, there is a priest of every religion in game for all your godly needs.

We haven't decided anything about celibacy, but it's a good question, and I'm foreseeing "no." Wouldn't celibacy be meaningless for a kran priest?

Definitely icons and images. But art isn't our department.

I'll leave it at that for now. Put the rest in the settings thread so we don't forget.

Oh, and also people: don't forget to participate in the poll before it gets locked for going 

[Myriel]

Well, Myriel doesn't follow one of the gods, although she believes in them. They are just a part of reality for her, but she doesn't worship them because she can't imagine what use that would be for them (if she happened to become a god, she would hate being worshipped ). She sees the gods as quite 'normal' persons that have great magic powers and long lives and tend to be wiser than most people. But as they are not always there and certainly don't visit the temples regularly (at least she has never seen Laanx turn up at the Laanx temple), she doesn't think they care much.
If one of the gods would appear in front of her, she surely would show some respect (but if he seems to be in a nice mood, she would probably try to ask some questions, because she doesn't believe that the priests know so much about those gods that hardly anyone has ever met).
Sometimes she even uses phrases like "may Talad guide you", "may Laanx frighten the shadow from your path" or the like, although she doesn't think that this helps in any way (Who could tell the gods what to do?). But it's still a nice wish and can't hurt.

[Duraza]

Be like certain Dakkru followers, interrogate the crap out of them until they actually stab them with a knife to end their nagging.

Well Dakkru did give us the job to make sure you people start following the "right" gods 

In this polytheist society, that is having more than one god, would it not be unusual for a character to solely give reverence to only one?

And now I'm even more curious. When you mention worshiping, how is this done? Since there is only the Laanx Temple that I know of, how are the other gods worshiped? Do the priests partake in celibacy? Are there icons and images? are there saints (not sure of the Yliakum-ism for it) that are also prayed to? Is there a liturgy? How do couples of different religions get married? is it a religion sanctioned event? Or is it state-sanctioned? Are there different sects with the various worshiping of the gods? Are there monasteries and convents for those who wish to fully devote their lives?

Its probabaly that reason above why it wouldn't be odd for someone to only worship one god. While there is not tons of information on all these things I can bet that "worshipping" varies from god to god. Xiosia is described to be more "loose" in worship, not making people dedicate their lives (I believe it says that in character creation or something along those lines). However people who follow Laanx have a very strict god and are focused on self perfection and things like that. Then if you follow Dakkru or Talad they too are different from the others. Trying to serve more than one would cause confilct in your own life as each has a different set of beliefs and goals. Then you have to remember that the gods aren't necessarily friends as Laanx and Talad probably still hate each other.

[Socius Rockus]

Talad and Laanx both, though coming to think of it is it Common to 'Follow' Two gods?
Or is it more common to just follow one?

[Phinehas]

Talad and Laanx both, though coming to think of it is it Common to 'Follow' Two gods?
Or is it more common to just follow one?

* Phinehas has a stroke.

Did you even read the thread?

[Socius Rockus]

  Not really, I guess i should do it now....
  I'm SORRY! I'm lazy too at times!   
 

[Kieve]

Really hard to figure out, since each has their own appeal. But on a strictly practical level, I'd have to say Kieve meshes with Laanx most closely. He's always striving to improve his abilities and himself, learning as much of magecraft as possible, and so forth. It'd be wrong to say he worships Laanx, specifically, but the ideals are closest to his own.

[Zan]

Actually I think it's very unnatural that a land with multiple known gods does not allow for polytheistic faiths. No sensible mortal would refuse to respect a god, even if another god asks them to .. unless may the other god is standing right behind them. Instead it'd be much better to have one patron god and respect the other deities when it is suitable. For example a warrior who has Laanx as a patron but also prays to Dakkru when war approaches. Or a farmer loyal to Talad but asking Xiosia to bless his fields.