[Guild] The Hydlaa Arena

[Sangwa]

Hello there Donari!

I don't like how the Promotional Thread topic post begins and ends. You should concern yourself more with making something that can't be brought down by others instead of apologizing for it.

I like the overall organization and how the promotional thread looks. I don't enjoy the needless OOC information used to excuse and justify action tough. I'd remove from the concept everything about players not "believing the guild exists". That way you make some players focus on that part.
In order to be successful at shrugging defiance you'd better get a name that doesn't make it look like the one only possible Arena management  guild. I'm hoping we will have more around, so the prices can lower and the events may change.

IC wise, for it to be consistent it would certainly need approval by the government. Considering I've seen players role playing half demons and other such nonsense, I think that isn't something too far fetched.

[Marqsaynt]

As I see it, there really are only two or three aspects of this guild idea that I see as being a potential problem... Only thing is, those ideas very easily can be ones that polarize the PS community and (rightfully so or not) overshadow any of the other arguably good ideas.

So, since I've already pointed out what I personally see as problematic... I guess the least I can do is offer a few thoughts that I think could potentially remedy some of the more controversial aspects.

1. Take "donations" instead of charging fees. As it stands right now, the fees are so minimal anyway, that I'd guess that you'd probably make more money from kind benefactors that like what you're doing, enjoy the tournaments, like having "real" gladiator training partners, than you ever would from charging minuscule fees. For example, one person donating a small gift of 4 circles would be the equivalent of 50 people that had paid entrance fees.

This would also eliminate any possibility that a person could feel "railroaded" by being asked for an entrance fee, and removes one of the controversial RP issues.

2. Reconsider the "we are official" vibe... I have no problem with an organization that works for the improvement of the arena and the promotion of it's facilities but, when you try to tie in having Gregori actually running a player based guild... it seems to at the very least push the boundaries of what is acceptable RP. If a group was operating in the arena, obviously they'd be doing so with Gregori's permission (from what I've read in his book, he'd probably allow it as long as he got a "cut" ). However, why is it necessary to be -The- Arena staff? If this guild was an entity seperate from the actual NPCs that run the Arena, it seems to me another possibly controversial problem would be resolved.

3. Don't worry about assigning NPCs... It would be more of a headache than it's worth for reasons too numerous for me to even want to attempt listing. (Keep the assignment idea though with the player gladiators, I think it's a good idea and could work well.)

And with that... I think I've probably said all I've wanted to say. Hope some of this is actually helpful, would hate to see a handful of questionable guild aspects overshadow and potentially doom the many other awesome ideas you came up with for this guild.

 

[Phinehas]

I agree with both Marqsaynt and Sangwa. There are some issues to be worked out, but take them into consideration and move on, no need to apologize for trying something new or innovative.

[Donari Tyndale]

Thank you for all your comments. Fees are changed to donating and paying for events. However, I will not reconsider the "official" vibe, as if the guild would not be lead by Gregori, it's reason of existance would be void. The Arena is owned by the vigesimi, and Gregori is the taskmaster of it. Gregori mentions "my staff" when you talk to him, this means no guild will be hired by him to do the work, but everyone working in the Arena would be employed by him. I consider the fact that the guild pretends to be taking care of the Arena in an official way essentially to the existance of it. Settings won't change for now, so I got to adapt to them. It's either that or nothing.
Sangwa, I removed the apology in the conclusion, but not in the introduction. Players need to be aware of the fact that this guild isn't truly official, so they need to keep that in mind while judging the guild.

[Sangwa]

I still think the official vibe is out of place. I think it's more coherent to misinterpret Gregori's words and claim that he does have a staff but some other people can work at the arena (I believe there is no written rule that forbids visitors of making events within the arena [specially if these don't bother the people who usually visit it]) than having a whole guild, and then everyone else that plays with this guild going against the settings so obviously.
The last is a lot more likely to cause dissension. I tell this of experience, considering Proglin and other people have held events in the Arena without trouble. However, everyone I've seen trying to role play stuff like they had been accepted by Vigesimi or Octarch have gone very wrong.

The way you take your approach seriously is good enough to keep your guild unofficial (both IC and OOC) until something else (if it does happen) is decided. Again, I strongly advise you to reconsider, as I'd rather not see such a good initiative get on the bad side of some conservative members of the community.

[Donari Tyndale]

A taskmaster that does nothing in the Arena and has other ones doing the job for him? No, that'd make Gregori unimportant.

[Phinehas]

Nice, I like your careful and thorough consideration of Sangwa's point.

Really, though... I have to agree with Sangwa. Allying yourself with an NPC and saying that when he refers to his staff it means you seems to be a bit of the stretch. Surely there's a way you can occupy the same space without needing to partake in his authority?

[Donari Tyndale]

I will reconsider the point of being under Gregori's authority, but if I do not find something that is entirely within the given settings,the guild will stay the way it is. However, if anyone has problems with this guild being Gregori's staff, I invite them to join the guild.

[Phinehas]

However, if anyone has problems with this guild being Gregori's staff, I invite them to join the guild.

Wait, what? If you don't like it, join?

[Sangwa]

She's claiming we can't beat her.

"If you can't beat them, join them."

A taskmaster that does nothing in the Arena and has other ones doing the job for him? No, that'd make Gregori unimportant.

As it is Gregori doesn't do squat. And that's his own (who ever is responsible for creating events) fault, not your Guild's. You'll just be lending a hand, until either Gregori hires you or gets his own staff doing stuff.

[Donari Tyndale]

I do not claim you can't beat me, it is a fact . No, it wasn't meant like "If you can't beat them, join them", but I would like to offer those that feel that this guild has taken over a part of the game just for power and to deprive them of something they could do a chance to involve themselves.

[Sangwa]

Well, we might come up with a guild just like yours, only named "Hydlaa's Arena Company" and claim Gregori considers us his staff too. That's why we're worried.

[Zan]

I don't like this argument ...

Why can a guild not work together with NPCs? From an IC point of view they're all people and it would make absolutely no sense that a group of people took over command of the Arena from Gregori when settings clearly states he is the taskmaster in charge of the Arena and his wishes are known to us. Ignoring Gregori is in my opinion worse.

 Dakkru's Will claims to work together with all the important NPCs of the Death Realm, they worship a Goddess who isn't controlled by players .. what's the difference? I can kill in Dakkru's name but I can't make money in Gregori's name?  And to be honest I'm kind of fed up with being careful and not getting intricately involved with the settings: NPCs, Government, ... just because some people might get jealous, disagree or try to copy it. If you're upset because some concept or initiative claims to be the authority or first in their field (when they really are) well .. too bad for you but you should have thought of it first or do it better, plain and simple. That's not saying you can't copy them and compete with them but fact is, you're not the original thinker.

Protecting people from getting jealous .. or even from immature people thinking up pitiful plots warping settings should not come at the cost of roleplay and immersion into the world. If settings decides that Donari's guild is not the way Gregori runs his arena, then Donari will have to accept that in the future. Until then I see nothing wrong with claiming to work for Gregori .. it makes more sense than if they aren't. I say judge every situation independently and don't punish people with good ideas that make sense because there might possibly be people with bad ideas waiting to copy them. Punish the bad ideas.

[Sangwa]

One thing is "claiming" another thing is actually being. Anyone else can make a guild that worships Dakkru and claim to have connections with its important people. This way timing and competition remain the only disadvantages for anyone creating a similar guild.


I don't really think it actually matters if this Guild is Gregori's staff or not, as I'm fine with it either way. It's a great project, like most stuff Donari comes up with and I'm hoping it'll make the Arena as fun as it should be.
However I would comprehend the frustration of someone else that planned to make a similar guild and be met with less sympathy. I am guessing that in this circumstance players would lean over choosing Donari's Guild because it assumes an official status. That would be a very unfair situation.

That's what I mean.

[Janner]

  After my encounter with this hastily put together guild.

1. No real background knowledge seamed to have be researched, as they were claiming Gregori owned it when they first entered the game.

2. They clam to be enhancing roleplay, yet for 1 hour until they were told to stop, 75% of say was [ooc]

3. I have seen it claimed no one will be told to leave. quote from a member of this guild. "If you want to leave, feel free to do so"

4. I was also Harassed in tells, also they Harassed me by luring monster away with magic, to stop me fighting it.

5. But the biggest sin of all was on #planeshift, I was accused of being rude in tells.

SO to sum up, if you want this, do not force it on others. Also do not harass anyone in away.