Wipe question for the 'NO' people. What would make a wipe worth it?

[neko kyouran]

if i was able to keep account/ names associated to that account so that i could still be XXXX after the DB was wiped, and so that in game, someone else wouldn't try to pretend to be me, thusly trying to discredit my reputation, then wipe whatever you want.

oh wait, I answered yes in the other thread.   

[Skibereen]

Please stay away from wipes as long as there are still open bugs that would make a second wipe in a short time preferable. Just keep the wipes several months (or years like now) from each other.

What would make it worth it for you to have a wipe?

Once the grind and numbers are gone. (and playing a fresh character that is not made to max strength without being restricted to just roleplaying and beginner quests is possible.) Then wipe and let us enjoy the game without numbercrunching.

[Tyrania]

Hello Community & GMs,

a wipe is atm nonsens?

But there are thousands of accounts that are inactive over months or years. So when your database (@ Admins + Developers) is to big or has to many errors/bugs, etc.
Delete all users wich don't login in the last hm... 3 or 6 Months?

Then is your problem solved, for the moment and you can fix other bugs, before you do a wipe... their are many worst bugs, their need a fix.

greetings 


PS: with my idea will be maybe solved the bad laggs to some times in game...??

[Caarrie]

PS: with my idea will be maybe solved the bad laggs to some times in game...??

Most of the current lag ingame is client side and not from the server so removing anything from the database will not decrease lag. Also the devs dont have time to do selective wipes unless there was some expoit that makes it needed. It is much easier for the devs [not gms] to do a full wipe of all chars then to look up when x was last on and decided based on that when and if that char will be wiped.

[Zan]

Whether a wipe will come is definitely not up for debate, it will come ... but I do think that how the wipe will be approached can be up for debate.

Skills, tria and items .. drop them, I don't care Character names, history, descriptions, guilds, guildhouses and other roleplayed acchievements I do care about. Obviously they all go down the drain in a full wipe and obviously there can be a full wipe needed.

• Names: Well since I'm no Dev I don't know how hard it is to save this information before wiping but I will assume it is too hard. So we'll have to depend on eachother's goodness and hope nobody steals your name on purpose. If it happens by accident, act maturely, contact that person and request your name back with GM help.
• History: Since there is no in-game place to save character history, this is also not a problem. You should save your character history on your own computer or brain.
• Descriptions: By giving people enough warning ahead of the wipe (read: a week or two) you can give them the chance to save their roleplaying info somewhere external. Also an official link to a copy-paste program for this purpose would be helpful.
• Guilds: See the first point.
• Guildhouses and other future benefits: This is the tricky part. Essentially they can be seen as items and that means they should be wiped without mercy. Personally I do see a huge difference between getting your hands on a weapon or glyph and a guildhouse though. The latter should also always be surrounded with roleplay so in my eyes, they should be restored after a wipe because they are a part of the roleplaying history of the guilds in question. I do not see this as unfair towards the other players since everyone starts from zero as far as tria go. More guildhouses will become available and everyone will have an equal chance of getting them. Not returning the old guildhouses doesn't change a thing about that since we still have plenty of empty buildings available. The same goes for other future benefits of a similar nature.

[Rinha]

PS: with my idea will be maybe solved the bad laggs to some times in game...??

Most of the current lag ingame is client side and not from the server so removing anything from the database will not decrease lag. Also the devs dont have time to do selective wipes unless there was some expoit that makes it needed. It is much easier for the devs [not gms] to do a full wipe of all chars then to look up when x was last on and decided based on that when and if that char will be wiped.

Deleting all accounts which didn´t log in for half a year isn´t a "selective" wipe. It can be done quite easily and would drop a good portion of the records including load of so-called "bad data".

[Under the moon]

People, stay on topic. The conversation is deviating again. Before you post, please make sure you are following the first post, not responding to someone else's. If this thread turns into a debate over any reason, including the methods that the Devs may or may not use, then I will ask that it be locked.

The intention of this thread is not yes or no. It is not to debate what causes what. It is simply asking you, personally, what would make a wipe OK in your eyes. Most of the answers so far have been very insightful, and others have avoided the topic.

Yes, it is a hard question. It is meant to be. It is akin to asking people for what reasons they would shave their heads. The reflex response to that question for most people is "I would not." But, if thought over, every last one of those people will come up with a reason they would do it.

[Jeraphon]

I believe what UtM is asking is:

"Would you be in favour of a wipe if Under the moon shaved his head?"

[zorbels]

I believe what UtM is asking is:

"Would you be in favour of a wipe if Under the moon shaved his head?"

HELL YA! 

Edit: Sorry moon I couldn't resist. Don't lock the thread on my account ..... 

[wolfspirit]

 As UTM asked...here is my list of "if" they did this/that a full wipe would be ok with me.

 IF...and is IF ALL...ALL of the following if were meet I would agree a full wipe would be nice.

1) IF...the current list of ALL unimplimented skills were made available for use

2) IF... the skill and trainning each person has actually matches what the result should be..ie..if a person has "mastered/maxed out the trainning in something like swordmaking  they should have no..no problem making swords/weapons of much higher quality and value than that of a person who/whom isn't even 1/2 way through such trainning..if a person has only been trainning a skill to 1/50th of someone elses  they aren't even able to do close to what the other can do..ect

3) IF...the DEVs/setting team(s) reset a skills "max" level to a point lowwer than what you are at...then all the PP and trias spent to get to the higher point above the new max..is returned to you

4) IF...there was actually a GM/advisor that would answer requests for help in a timely manner

5) IF... ALL..ALL magic worked as it should...ie.. if you cast weakness that is suppose to effect an enemy..it should not effect you

6) IF ... all..ALL current  bugs within quests/skills/mapping/ect were fixed

7) IF....  the Devs/settings team amoung others..admit that any game {such as PS} that continues to upgrade graphics and such...in not a FREE GAME..to those that have to spend the money to upgrade the systems inorder to play.

 OF course I could get deeper into more things..but thats just a basic..very basic list

[Dajoji]

4) IF...there was actually a GM/advisor that would answer requests for help in a timely manner

Game Masters are volunteers and we're not enough to be online 24/7. If you need assistance and no Game Master is around you can go to #planeshift-gmtalk on IRC and see if anyone can come online to help you or post a petition. The fact that in the future we hope to have enough Game Masters to cover all time zones has little to do with why a wipe would be needed though.

*Dajoji leaves before UtM smacks him with his antiofftopic club...

[Xillix Queen of Fools]

I can tell you right now that it is in your best interest to record any information such as shortcuts, character descriptions, etc etc.

For me a wipe would be fine because the devs wanted one. No real criteria is needed to be met.

[SerqFeht]

Names can be replaced. Guilds can be built back up. Histories can be remembered.

But I would prefer that it is done every once in a while, not wiped, then wiped again the next week to correct some other bug.

Also, I like the idea of when the Devs do want to wipe, that the GMs could make some kind of event right before the wipe to explain why such an event would occur.

[Greenie]

As some others stated I also think that if the devs think a full wipe is unavoidable, then it would be okay for me. That's the first IF.

The second (also stated by others): IF the "character-specific" things are kept. In other words: If players keep their character (name and description). I think I am not the only one who, after a while of just playing for advancement, began to roleplay, more or less, and therefore chose the character name on purpose (though I won't say the name in here ;-) ). Also I (as well as others) invested some time in writing a good description for the own character. That's why I think the second IF is essential.

[Garile]

I have thought about it some more and looked around and read most of the other discusion.

Personally I have to say there are only a few reasons listed by people in favor of a wipe.

1. Seems to be the feeling that several people exploited bugs and gained an unfair advantage and a wipe would clear this up again. Personally I feel that is a bad reason for a wipe. Won't there be more bugs? And does it really affect your gameplay if someone else used a bug to get a few more tria? I mean at this time there are plenty of people who are maxed in several things "legally" so this advantage seems minimal at best seeing it only adds a few people who are maxed to the list.

About the same reasoning goes to stabilizing the economy. Once crafting skills and loot seem to be stabilized and tweaked one can think of a wipe to make sure the economy isn't stll contaminated by cash (and the skills gained by them) from earlier bugs. At the moment it seems a bit far away though.

2 The solution of all that is buggy. Obviously that isn't true but I hear from some devs that it would help to solve some bugs that have been found. I think that really is a good reason to think about a wipe. Specially if those bugs make it hard to build out the feature the bug is found in. We are afterall here to improve Planeshift as a game aswell. However seeing I haven't really seen anyone mention what bugs would be fixed it is most likely those bugs are only minor at this time and then it would be strange to chose yes eventhough one should think about it.

****

I've read not only arguments for the wipe but also many against one. Many I don't agree with. Many are reasons why you shouldn't do a wipe UNLESS it is nececary.

Although I feel some people are just passing by the fact we are here to enjoy ourselves and that leveling is a part of the game and part of the enjoyment and part of the package of Planeshift just as much as roleplaying is.

The bottomline I think is obvious. The reaons why not are obvious. The reasons why you do decide to wipe should atleast weigh up against those. Therefor I think the answer is in my own highly personal opinion.

A wipe should be done when
1. A bug occured that makes most people want to quit planeshift or atleast highly annoyed like a bug that randomly changed peoples stats or a bug that makes several characters unable to do basic things.

2. A bug occured that makes it hard for the devs to continue building an aspect of Planeshift and it is holding them back.

3. It is needed so the devteam can seriously improve PS like going from MB to CB (not really a wipe but still)

4. When the game is nearing it's finished state in terms of all major skills being active and the devs thinking no major bugs will occur to disrupt the playereconomy and there still being earlier bugs who influenced the economy in a degree that a little time wont absorb it.

PS: I do think it would be a great gesture if the devs tried to not have a wipe that would erase names of characters and guilds, but I can see that being pretty hard to realise  with a full wipe.