Author Topic: More on Pking  (Read 8888 times)

Zaphieon

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PKing/PVPing
« Reply #45 on: May 28, 2003, 08:23:04 pm »
First I need to get one thing of my chest really fast, Mehallie do you honestly believe there was NO killing in medieval times for say, gold, a nice sword someone was carrying, even just for some cloak a bandit decided he liked. you say it would be to real if it implemented this system in the game yet you say you don think there will be enough tradeskills, lol last time I checked baking cookies, mining, carving, etc.  is part of the real world.  and your arguement about the raping, and other illegal crimes in the real world is an extreme, I coudl just as easily say that about your \"trade skill\" for example, why If your gonna add baking, smithing, mining,  why cant a player raise animals to breed, shouldnt we be able to build new towns ourself, what about players inviting new ideas, like a cake powered cariage.  anyway thats all quite silly. and now for the veiws and personal opinions of Zaphieon, someone that has been playing RPGs since the mid 80\'s.

I remmber when MMORPGs first started coming out..  what a glarious time it was for RPG lovers..  the chance to play there favorite genre of game with 1000s of others to interact with.  before then we had were stuck playing alone, before then you didnt go to the store looking for a RPG wondering if you coudl bake a cake in it, make a guild, buy a house, anyone those.  It wasnt really about the graphics engine, how much bank space you would have, if there was gonna be PVP(of course not cuase there was only gonna be us playing it). anyway there is 2 extremes to MMORPGS today tradeskills and  pvp, 2 aspects players really worry about, 2 aspects you must have to make a successful mmrpg.  now in a mmorpg you have very few avid crafters i mean the ones that love to craft just about as few as them as avid pkers in a world were once you ave a repuation of pking you cant go into town cause the gaurds wil kill you, you cant sell to the town merchants cause gaurds will kill you, where when your spotted by a player he runs off and comes back with 15 friends. its 2 extremes very few people are going to really get into. sure there would be casual pkers here and there watching there limit, same as crafters, they will craft untell they get to a certain lvl and boredom then go out to quest or what not.  arenas dont cut it for pvp, guild wars dont cut it. if you put these kinda limitations in the game your game will be jsut that limited. I will give you my personal opinion and wisdom how to set up constraits and enjoyable/exciting pvp interaction even for the most extreme crafter, try player cooperation.  ok here goes.


first off all crafters newbies always start off in town, usuall some mine and what not, forges, ovens, all that good stuff to get them going..  likewise the pker they start usually just outside the safe zones usually in a dungeon.  


number thing you need is a way to seperate those that pk from non pks..  easiest way(and most nonrealistic) is murder counts, I say if your gonna take the life of other players then you must face very harsh punishment. that being said after 3 murder counts NO matter what amount of time has passed between them or after then the player is labeled a murderer forever, after those 3 kills there is no way for them to redeem there selves, after the first kill they shoudl be labeled a criminal for 8 hours of game play, not being able to go into town, and being able to be attacked by others freely. after 2 kills the criminal label should be expanded to 36 hours of game play. the 3 is the forever murderer label. this label is established by either a red name when clicked on or by an aura of blackish-red the readiate, the more kills they have the darker it gets(add more dreaded the player is as well as teh bounty on his head). now those that have become a criminal/murderer KOS to npc gaurds, rangers, bountyhunters, that are in common towns throughout the land, roam the roads, and even scout out the woods here and there for these players. the weaker pks would be no match for these npcs, the higher lvls ones will generally die by 1 of them but sometimes win the fight, the veteran pks will win the fight with 1 about 75% of the time but if 2 are there they pretty much run or die.


Now for the craftsmen. they will start mining around town, as teh progress slowly they shoudl realize for the more precious/rare ores, minerals, plants, ingredents, etc. for there trade is found outside of town the more rare the further they have to wonder, now some trades lovers will say well i dont wanna get pked by some one that waiting way out there for me to come pick a spotted fluffy radishshroom, and well only veteran crafters really would need such an ingredent anyway so what they would/could do is get a friend, mercs that would go with them for these materials in the wilderness, these mercs are players general wanting to kil teh murderers for bountys on there heads, status symbol of being a protecter of the land(maybe a white arua, or hightlighted name), or just plain satisfactin of helping another player from the most dreadful danger of all another player(which everyone knows no AI can match the pure unpredicatblitly, braver, and sometimes sheer dumbness of an actually player).


ok on elast aspect to thru in the mix,  travel.  travel should be done by several means, first and most common the players feet, secondly maybe ridable steeds if added. and thirdly portal spells if added, now portal spells shouldnt be able to be used by just any player, should be very hard to obtain the ability to portal anywhere, this said there shoudl be portal points not ones which a player decides to mark a rune or bind or anything of this nature.  maybe shrines, sacred stone circles, enchanted tree stumps and what not.. now the players that decide to be portalers, should first have to locate blank portal type scrolls off of beast that are deep within dungeons, way out in the forest of the world or maybe the corpse of a player.  then they have to bind the scroll to the sacred spot not always so obvisous, all towns would have a spot or 2 to bind in some very secret ones. and thru otu teh worlds there shoudl be spots that are hard to find determine and as a portal channel once the player has atleast 2 binds then he can open a portal between the 2.. not just open a portal from dans  house of the weird back to town..  now the portal will only be accessible from the opening side..  the side which you are traveling to will not indicate any thing except you poping thru it..


ok well i am gonna end it here, i am sure there is much to flame, argue about, and maybe agree with.  these are simply my opinions on a balanced mmorpg were the 2 aspect players yearn for is met in teh extreme and the not so extreme

PandemiK

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« Reply #46 on: June 11, 2003, 03:41:31 pm »
I TOTALY agree with Zaphieon !
Just think of a world where everyone is good, there\'s no problem ... not really interesting.
Assassins must exist, so conspiracy to kill the king and all this kind of things.
But of course, to make this possible the game must be in a better technical state than now, so instead of writing long threads, why not writing long code pieces ;-)
So please, never say never ...
« Last Edit: June 11, 2003, 03:42:34 pm by PandemiK »

suen

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NO Pking
« Reply #47 on: June 11, 2003, 05:17:57 pm »
I agree with the development team and various others that do NOT want pking.

I played a few MMORPG (RO, etc) and some MUD.  I found that in most *free* MMORPG, there are always a lot of people who create accounts just to pk.  So what if you ban or punish the character.  they just create another one and go pking again.  It is very frustating to play game that way.  banning would have worked if it is not so easy to create new characters.  There are players out there enjoy making it others miserable.

In particular, various character classes have very different fighting characteristics.  Magic users are generally weak physically.  They are easy picking for phsycial fighters when they are low level and ambushed.  With death panelty, etc, and frequent pk\'ing, they are painful to play.  (*If you haven\'t picked it up, I like to play magic users. ^^)

In response to those who said this should mirror real life:  If I want real life, I can go watch tv, I won\'t be playing a fantasy RPG.  I play game to enjoy and to get frustration.  Arena is just fine if you want to test your capability with another player.  What advantage does pking have over arena other than letting those who wanted to pk attack someone else?

Thanks to the development team for standing the ground for those who\'d rather have a fun experience (that are not build on others misery.)

Tony
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The Cubical Dweller

bugabear

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omg im guna get flammed i figured for this
« Reply #48 on: June 12, 2003, 04:27:46 am »
Ok, here me out! Before you start typing your message on how BAD pk\'ing is, listen to me.
  In the world many people die every day, be them bakers, miners, cops or buisness people.  Death is life, and life leads to death.  It\'s a basic fundemental rule for reality.
  Now building on this... I understand PlaneShift is not \"reality\" in any way shape for form,  but should not the basic\'s still apply?  If you wish to be an assassin working for a rich person, you do not have that oppertunity.
  The MAJOR problem with pking however in every game is the fact that it is abused to such an extent that almost everyone belives that it is a bad thing.  But you goto look at it both ways.
  Lets say there\'s this stupid little newbie talking big, you try to ignore him but then he starts bad mouthing you... What are you guna do? Go tell a mod that he\'s making fun of you?  W00t you sure are a bad mambajamba now boy arent you.  However if pk\'ing was allowed, you could put him in his place right there right then.
  But as sweet as that might be it posses a problem.  You can\'t just go killing people!  Reality or not.  Where\'s the morals!?  

So i pose an ultimatum...

1) Allow pk\'ing in all shapes and forms, in all places 100% of the time. ( i know this must infuriate you allready)

2) If you are attacking someone, who does not wish to fight in any sence, they imidiatly get a defencive bonus that would be more than enough to ward off basic newbie pk\'ers

3) As in real life, murder/attempted murder cause\'s consequinces...  You are now branded as a killer, and will be labeled as such for the duration of the game.  In towns the police (which if you do what i propose) will hunt you down if you enter the limits of the town.  Bounty hunters could even be issued awards for your head.  Merchant\'s feel no point in dealing with you, so getting equipment will be almost impossible (unless a black market is implimented which could make things extremely interesting)

4) Now that you have been tagged, weighted and judged, killers and non killers alike have the opportunity to kill you without being branded a murderer themselves.  If you wish you could even allow a killer who kills another killer to loose there status as a murderer.  Now bounties could be collected and everything

I believe in this way, pk\'ing could be managed.  Theif guilds / evil guilds could be made.  The game as a whole I think could be significantly improved.  The bakers and the miners, they can still go about there lives.  The fear of death by murder will never be that close.  But the fact of the matter is it must be there...

my 6 cents...
flame away boys and girls :)

Caldazar

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« Reply #49 on: June 12, 2003, 12:40:32 pm »
Quote
Originally posted by PandemiK
I TOTALY agree with Zaphieon !
Just think of a world where everyone is good, there\'s no problem ... not really interesting.
Assassins must exist, so conspiracy to kill the king and all this kind of things.
But of course, to make this possible the game must be in a better technical state than now, so instead of writing long threads, why not writing long code pieces ;-)
So please, never say never ...


... and then everybody read the OFFICIAL HOMEPAGE, with some STATEMENTS, and then they realized that assassins will exist, they will be able to backstab, just NOT ON A PC.
The world of Planeshift isnt all-good. There are a few evil-aligned guilds. There are quite a few griefers, who makes the game \"bad\". Why wont everybody get it??
Instead of saying \"pk is realistic so I want it\", come up with a good system how it would work!

AendarCallenlasse: So true...so true..
Browsing the forums when I\'m bored, nothing more.

bugabear

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« Reply #50 on: June 12, 2003, 03:17:00 pm »
Didn\'t i just explain a basic system...
i know that post wasnt directed to me, but didn\'t you read mine?

Caldazar

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« Reply #51 on: June 12, 2003, 04:51:29 pm »
Quote
Originally posted by bugabear
Didn\'t i just explain a basic system...
i know that post wasnt directed to me, but didn\'t you read mine?


Those are the same ideas that has been talked about since the beginning of the pk-campaign. Its not a system (which I believed I said).
Browsing the forums when I\'m bored, nothing more.

bugabear

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« Reply #52 on: June 12, 2003, 10:46:00 pm »
Define \"SYSTEM\" please, i don\'t understand how that could be anything but a system of using pk\'ing effectively in a game.  But what do I know... Just seemed to be a valid way of using pk\'ing... Don\'t goto get cranky at me...
« Last Edit: June 12, 2003, 10:50:31 pm by bugabear »

bugabear

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« Reply #53 on: June 12, 2003, 10:48:31 pm »
More to add to my \"system\" (basiclly agree\'ing with current idea\'s so dont get cranky at me)

5) I belive having an arena would be a great addition to any game.  In this way characters who wish to battle can do so without having consequences of any kind.  Also putting in a tournament ranking system into it where characters who get defeated are eliminated and having prizes at the end would be cool.

6) Guild wars would also be appropriate but wouldnt it be hard to control.  It could draw in unneccessary characters who are part of neither guild into it.  So i guess what you would have to do is either pick a time/place for these fights or define certain area\'s/grounds for these fights be it a guild\'s land/territory or a place far from anywhere.

7) Having a system of Honor.  Where the characters who defeat monsters more powerful than themselves, battle characters above his level and winning and or performing heroic deads would gain points toward this.  There would be levels (similar to a game called utopia however it is not a rpg) which would rank the character.  The system is utopia is something like this (not exactly acurate but you can get the idea) Peasant - Knight - Lord - Baron - Count - VisCount - Prince.  Its something like this, and at each level the character gets moderate bonus\'s for it.  The bonus\'s would not be enough to make one \"god\" but enough to give him the incentive to follow this path.  But also have an additional counter path.  One were it goes the opposite way, have it also gain bonus\'s but different ones.  More towards the evil side of things. Yah know?

8) Back to the PK\'ing issue which is as I can tell \"extreamly\" touchy for most people on this forum.  One can not have a well played game without PK\'ing for this fundamental reason.  Life is unfair, deal with it.  Not everything goes your way always.  Why should it be any different in a game?  I know, I know, its a game, games are for fun.  No one wants to be a blacksmith and constantly fear that he could be knifed to death or mugged by a fearless thief.  I myself have played a game called faldon, i was a miner, i enjoyed going mining for minerals, making me some weapons, selling them and what not.  But it got old eventually, something was lacking... Danger was lacking... Danger is exciting... really it is, if it wasnt theme parks wouldnt exist.  There needs to be something more... real.  Sure theres the constant danger a monster might come after you, but thats regular, its normal and in most cases predictable... You can fight it, or just go mining where there arent any monsters.  Whats not predictable is when that thief or assassin will jump out of the shadows, tell you that your life is over, and kill you in cold blood.  Simply put, a game needs danger, more than what a simple AI monster can give it.  It needs conflict, more than what a programmer can create.  It needs... all i can think of the word to use is chaos...

Thanks for reading, my opinion, my \"system\" i think it\'d be cool. You don\'t like it? You don\'t have to.  No one right now is considering.  It\'s not in place.  You need not flame, yell, swear or scream at me.  What you need to do as a player who wish\'s to see this game reach its \"full potential\" and by all means, if this game is developed properlly, I belive it could one of, and maybe even \"the best\", is to constructively critize the points and views of both the people who wish to have the ability to kill another players (I do not like the word PK all that much since it is in most cases branded as bad) and those who wish to not allow such a thing on a public scale.

These are my views...
« Last Edit: June 12, 2003, 11:09:39 pm by bugabear »

Vengeance

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« Reply #54 on: June 13, 2003, 01:22:46 am »
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Danger is exciting... really it is, if it wasnt theme parks wouldnt exist.


What is an example of a theme park where murdering other customers is allowed?

bugabear

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« Reply #55 on: June 13, 2003, 01:42:26 am »
Quote:
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Danger is exciting... really it is, if it wasnt theme parks wouldnt exist.
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Quote:
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What is an example of a theme park where murdering other customers is allowed?
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You must of misunderstood when said danger is exciting.  What i meant is, that well, \"danger is exciting\".  Yah know?  Well no, i guess that might be a little vauge i gues so I\'ll explain it.  Danger is exciting, the thrill of falling, the thrill of flying around and around with the threat of possible diing in the back of your mind, the thrill of being scared in a haunted house ((woot theres the murder part :) lol well sorry no like a haunted house if your really into the whole ghost thing it would be kinda scared that things would come and kill you )).  So seeing that it may not be \"technically\" MURDER, but in a way it is the fear of death by something.  There is always the possiblity of a carnie being vicious and killing someone, or a thug who decides he\'s bored of stealing and wants to try a new route.
  But yah getting to the point danger is exciting in those forms.  This is a computer game so how would falling be exciting?  Sure a monster coming at you might be thrilling, or exciting, but the challange of actually being that monster is tantalizing to some.  Why take away that, and question, im not 2 clear sometimes, but did you understand what i was getting at or not in the posts?

You don\'t like it? You don\'t have to.  And please, none of these \"ooh im smater than you look you mest up in your post so im guna point it out to you, or ooh look at me im shutting him down hard in one way or another.  Please all i ask is constructively critize what im saying and put your pride aside.

Caldazar

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« Reply #56 on: June 13, 2003, 01:57:12 pm »
Quote
You don\'t like it? You don\'t have to. No one right now is considering. It\'s not in place. You need not flame, yell, swear or scream at me.


I did not yell, I did not scream, I did not swear and I did not flame. I am sorry if you perceived my posts as offensive. Clearly they were not supposed to be.
Browsing the forums when I\'m bored, nothing more.

bugabear

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« Reply #57 on: June 13, 2003, 05:50:09 pm »
I\'m sorry but I did perceive it to be offensive.  I clearly stated a system and you denied it to be one without clarifying what exactly a system, in your definition would be.   I am sorry, but you mustn\'t be so hastily to judge what I?m saying...
But also, this was not directed towards you as an individual but the population on these boards as a whole.  As you read it, I stated that you must approach this question from both side\'s; the players who believe that a game must be open to allow all sorts of things from player killing to mining, or the side who believes that that a game must be open to allow all sorts of things but disallow player killing on a public front.  Many are too quick to judge others opinions and take no time to consider how each person feels and how each set of rules will affect the game as a whole.

Miss_Moogie

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« Reply #58 on: June 16, 2003, 11:16:09 pm »
Discussing this further is like... continuing to debate the Meaning of Life after God himself has already explained it.

Capich?? :P

tygerwilde

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« Reply #59 on: June 17, 2003, 03:14:15 am »
see, the this is even more pointless because god hasn\'t explained the meaning of life
we are the music-makers, we are the dreamers of dreams - Gene Wilder as willy wonka

Johnny Depp\'s a poser to the throne. No one will ever play the part as well as Gene Wilder