Is PlaneShift graphics engine capable of environments like these?

[Ahrimann]

Hello,

Is PlaneShift graphics engine capable of atmospheric environments like these (without choking)?

http://www.tcos.com/images/content/sm04.jpg
http://www.tcos.com/images/content/sm05.jpg
http://www.tcos.com/images/content/sm06.jpg
http://www.tcos.com/images/content/sm07.jpg
http://www.tcos.com/images/content/sm08.jpg
http://www.tcos.com/images/content/sm09.jpg

Notice the smooth rainfall throughout the area.

This is from an upcoming MMORPG called "The Chronicles of Spellborn", which uses a modified Unreal Engine.

How heavy is the PlaneShift graphics engine modification from the original Crystal Space 3D?

[LigH]

PS modification of the CS engine? There is hardly any (AFAIK). PS does not yet even use all possible features.

Some very slight distant fog is possible. Local light sources are too. High-resolution world elements instead hurt the performance, unfortunately (you will know it while passing the plaza, and Hydlaa is not yet even a very complex town - something about space partitioning might be non-optimal here).

[Caarrie]

Hello,

Is PlaneShift graphics engine capable of atmospheric environments like these (without choking)?

http://www.tcos.com/images/content/sm04.jpg
http://www.tcos.com/images/content/sm05.jpg
http://www.tcos.com/images/content/sm06.jpg
http://www.tcos.com/images/content/sm07.jpg
http://www.tcos.com/images/content/sm08.jpg
http://www.tcos.com/images/content/sm09.jpg

Notice the smooth rainfall throughout the area.

This is from an upcoming MMORPG called "The Chronicles of Spellborn", which uses a modified Unreal Engine.

How heavy is the PlaneShift graphics engine modification from the original Crystal Space 3D?

First CS is not something that ps modifies, ps uses it to help make the game run. For maps if ps can run poly count and the way the map is setup is more important then what is in the map. PS most likely could run maps like those but depending on the hardware of the users could they play in them. You might want to take a look at the source http://planeshift.svn.sourceforge.net/viewvc/planeshift/trunk/

[Ahrimann]

I see.

I've found out that some effects like rain and snow already exist in ps but are only manually initiated by a gm for a limited time because they can cause crashes otherwise. Have you been able to track down the cause of those crashes?

[ThomPhoenix]

I'm pretty sure CS can display all the things you post there Ahrimann. It just depends on who is making the art/effects.

[Ahrimann]

If the ability to run those things in CS/PS depends on a user's hardware, what would be your rough estimate for system requirements to run such environments smoothly?

[LigH]

During the times of version 0.3.012..015, I was almost happy about the speed of a GeForce2 GTS on a Duron 800 MHz... so if you have a modern PC with a graphic card made for "Transform & Lighting" / "Vertex shader" 3D effects (means: Nvidia GeForce 4 ++ / ATI Radeon 9500 ++; but not intel / S3 / VIA / wannabe-onboard-chipsets), you are fine.

[Xordan]

Yes. We just don't, partly because of performance, partly because we don't have pro artists who know how to optimise the maps to squeeze every bit of juice out of the engine.

[Ahrimann]

That's the reason, and I'm glad that you at least admit to it but have ever you considered the cause? To get the "pro artists", you either pay those artists to encourage them to work or you have an open source license for the content (it is an open source game, not just an open source engine game, after all) as an alternative to attract good artists, in which case many of them may have been willing to "squeeze every bit of juice out of it" for free. You have neither and, from what I've read on the forums so far, are not willing to try either, especially the latter. That makes a difference because now it's a choice you've made to limit your options. It also makes a difference when you defend and promote such a decision, even after being suggested and explained why it may be a mistake.

You don't necessarily have to know how to squeeze every bit of juice out of an engine to have a relatively solid optimization. Not to say that you are "bad artists" but rather lacking serious encouragement and are stuck in self-imposed limitations, all of which reflect on the game. Just because something is a hobby, does not mean it has to be stuck inside inflexible policies. Does this "hobby" ever feel like a chore or a real work? Do you ever feel that maybe, just maybe, certain hopes, promises and promotions may end up stringing the players and the community along? If the answer is yes, then you are doing a disservice to both, yourself and the community. Sure, there is "Apricot" (which came later) but that's a different project altogether. Many comments even commended you on the decision to make it an open source content project. Why "Apricot" and not "PlaneShift"?

I've also noticed a general attitude from certain individuals to imply that players are "ungrateful" and to try and force them to "thank" the developers. I'd just like to mention that in commercial companies Beta-testing is a job too and people get paid for it. Something to think about...

I'll spare you further discussion of open source content, since it seems to be a touchy subject for you. I think the "routine" here is to lock the thread after controversial posts like these. Go ahead.

[Karyuu]

I'd get turned away from an "open source license." So in my case, you'd actually lose an artist. Might want to consider that, Ahrimann. This is not a new argument, and my eyes glaze over every time someone brings it up. Not new. Stop it :)

We certainly don't lack encouragement. Where are you coming up with this? Self-imposed limitations? Perhaps only limited in that we can't dedicate 24 hours to learn how to make better art, though everything we make turns out better and better anyway. And who the hell "forces" players to thank developers..? I am so lost. And irritated at this nonsense.

Perhaps if you're willing to provide the funds to hire professional artists, we can talk later.

[Xordan]

(it is an open source game, not just an open source engine game, after all)

I would disagree with that. I see PlaneShift very much as a open source engine game. Maybe that's not the impression some others have given out in the past, but that's what I think it is.

I didn't really mean that we were lacking good artists, rather we are lacking artists who have a good amount of experience in game development (at least one AAA title on their resume) and who know how to use the engine well, which isn't their fault at all but rather the result of a lack of excellent documentation about the engine. The best artist in the world can't make a good looking game if he/she doesn't know how to leverage the engine in the most optimum manner.

[neko kyouran]

Kary some how found a way out of her cage we had her tied up in, so we had to take a break from making artsy stuffs to go find where that little rascal ran off too.  Never fear, we found her and she's safe and sound, back in her little cage where she gets to spend all her time making artsy things for PS.  Don't worry though.  We treat her well.  Every so often she gets let out to play with her friends.  Here's a vid of it: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kOpOBo8rFpg



Disclaimer:  For the people who lack a funny bone, the above was a joke.

[Prolix]

looks like someone is saving up for a new fur coat. Any chinchillas planned for PS?

[LigH]

PlaneShift uses an open-source engine. The art instead is copyrighted. Read the license.

You can freely use the engine for your own game. But make your own levels, graphics, characters ...

[Xillix Queen of Fools]

There is some reasonable expectation on our side that rather than simply airing grievances on the forums and in essence complaining about why x and y does not "work" as the players would like, that players will actually USE the mediums we have provided for them to help us to improve the game. FOSS philosophies aside, our game is free and we ask that players think of themselves as testers to the extent that it is beneficial to this ad free, fee free, game that we provide for them.

Some may not like the state the game is in, and that is fine, but aiding us in improving it is (in my view) imperative to the right to complain about it. Certain of us do not like being treated as customer service representatives by the people who test the game.

The personal sacrifices that developing this game entails are worthy of at least a bit of respect imo, so if I think people can be ungrateful, my view is informed by that. However no generalization will cover why some devs respond one way while others another. People are welcome to play but not entitled to define the direction of development; they can make proposals, but they can demmand NOTHING .

I also don't think that anyone is in a grand position to say what attracts professional artistic talent, no free mmorpg is openly kicking planeshift's ass. We have people at all levels of artistic development working with us atm, and we do our best to help them to learn how to be better. We do have professional artists/architects/designers working for the project but not every one of them is 100% prepared to do make the huge leap to the 3d world. All of this takes time.

What is also missed in some of these statements is the fact that the team is much wider than simply art and we have a lot that keeps PS viable by virtue of content and community.

If anyone wants to look for a fight, I suggest they find a new hobby, the FOSS arguments bore me. Join us in making the dream of a add free fee free game possible, or please, stop wasting our time.