Re: Think NPCs are dumb? Click here!

[CrazyYlian]

Well, not so much what they say, as how to get them to say it...

When doing quests I generally find "about <something>" to be a good way to get the ball rolling when an NPC has told me to ask another NPC for something.  But just recently, I have come across 3 different quests where "about" doesn't seem to be recognized at all.  If I just say "<something>" then the NPC proceeds as expected.

Example (names & items changed to protect spoilers)

NPC-A:  "I need a Floofle to finish this.  NPC-B can probably help you with that"

NPC-B:  Hi there, nice weather, eh?

Me:  about floofle

NPC-B: Whatever are you talking about?

Me: NPC-A sent me

NPC-B:  Talk sense, fool

Me:  I need a floofle

NPC-B:  Are you some kind of looney?

Me: (in desperation)  FLOOFLE!

NPC-B:  Floofle?  Why didn't you say so?  Got one right here.

It seems like a consistent way of leading into quest actions and items is needed.  One of those stumped me for a week, because the item in question was something that I would simply never blurt out as a stand alone phrase, especially if the NPC's lead-in isn't phrased as a question.  If NPC-B said "What can I get you?" I might answer that way, but otherwise it doesn't come naturally.   

[nightstone000]

standardization:

"where is x"
"who is x"
"about x x"
"x sent me"
"i need x"

most of those are common enough but there is limited responses given from them
adding "i need x" to a random npc should refer you to who could possibly help you if they cant give it
making "where is x" easier they either say, sorry i dont know them.. or they are near x in x area for person or object
"about x also" needs something as only ignorant npcs dont know what iron is, or what magic the land has
"who is x" definately not common enough as i can ask who someone thousands of times and certainly recieve no response
"who is talad" should be answerable by every npc that believes 1% in ANY religion
"who is merchant" occupation by who is should be easy to answer if they know someone because everyone knows the local merchant and should be able to answer name and general location or store name
"x sent me" isnt required because some quests dont require that to initiate a conversation HOWEVER, when no further dialog is given how to give information or ask for it then it is needed to have a standard saying to begin some conversation!!!! and thus continue with question and answer

making a common list of proper names for items in the world would be a great addition
every npc should have this list and be modified
if npc1 knows about a, b, e, f but d is not checked on npc then when asking anything reguarding d it would say "i dont know about d"
if npc2 gives quest about c they should at the VERY LEAST have info about c when asking, "about c" "where is c" "i need c" "who is c"

adding the list to every npc and giving them a check or no check and common dialog
however dont have accidentally mining checked but not iron,gold,coal,plat, etc checked
then they really dont know a darned about mining then do they?

if person lives in town and has optional quests about npc3, then npc3 should be checked and all info given during dialog should be checked
^give me a quest
npc1 gave quest to find npc3 about item c
^about npc3
npc3 in town4 owes me item c
^about item c
item c is such and such and ask npc3 in town4 about item c they can help you
^about town4
its somewhere ive been before because i went to talk to npc3 about item c

checks and balances, questions and answers
this will help the **lost quest information** and **npc doesnt respond** syndrome sometime encountered when blabbing all info back to npcs and getting null response


secondarily
please **less big quest with little reward for time and effort**
how many times did i run from BD to ojaveda only to have to run back to BD then continue back to ojaveda then back to bd then back to ojave and finish in BD on a single quest
3 or 4 times so far? yes
why? i get little from doing so besides a few coin and maybe 800xp
give more incentive for doing time consuming quests
such as custom items, useful skills, more xp or more money
smaller quests i can understand if "get 1 item and give to me" gives cost to cover aquire item and 100xp to complete quest
but the nonsense of i need to travel the entire first level 4 times to complete a quest inorder to gain simple 1000xp and 1000 trias is beyond rediculous
in such time i could have killed 200 rats and gotten more from doing so
what will it be like when travelling to level 8 to kill 30 mobs to get 10 hides 10 teeth and 15 chunks of coal from npc832 bring it all back to npc1 and then go to hidden area level 7 which takes 2 hours to reach then ask npc744 1 question and get letter then return to npc1 give letter and end the quest for 3000xp and a few coin



third the quest
i do understand quests get harder the more quests you ask from certain npcs
as should be expected
that doesnt mean it should become a massive puzzle game to get blue key to open blue door to find red key to give to npcR to find green info from unknown source and never finding unknown source for green info because there are 70 npcG to ask the question continuing on a downward "green info results ask green npc477 he knows more about it" then find greenpc477 and ask about "green info results in find me impossible yellow and ill tell you"
no, such things are too complex for low-mid level questing




that begins my rant on the dynamics of quest solutions and results

[Jeraphon]

Please read the original post. Your post was completely and utterly unhelpful. You basically told me that NPCs don't know ... stuff. Well yes, we're aware. But until you actually chat to them and give me specifics, so I can tell what players are most likely to ask NPCs, you've given me nothing. Further, please note the original post:

*Note: I would prefer that you ask the NPCs questions outside the scope of their quests. What I'm focussing on right now is general knowledge, not quest dialogue, because they are two very different things.

CrazyYlian: PM me or Rizin your quest log. That's an easier way to fix things. And this thread isn't about quests, as much as people want it to be.

[neko kyouran]

topic split

[Under the moon]

Quests will also give factions (what NPCs think of you). In the future, you may find that gaining the right factions may well be worth far more than large rewards at the end of each quest.

I like to write quests to tell a story, not to compete with killing rats or mining. I keep my quests rewards as close to real as possible. Is a lowly scumbag in the sewer going to hand you a sack of tria or a grand sword after sending you on a fool's quest to Ojavedai (twice)? Not likely. Could this lead to something grander down the road? Perhaps. Some quests are stand alone, and give out rewards based on that. Others are simply rungs of a ladder, and you will be lucky to get any reward at all.

Some of the requests you ask for call for either a rewrite of the NPC code, or a ton of work for Settings that may become obsolete once the NPC code is rewritten. It is a bit of a catch 22, as the dialogue code is secondary to other things Engine is working on, such as bug fixing and system optimization.

[Theorex]

Unless one of us wanted to become a dev specifically for that reason, there isn't gonna be a change any time soon...

am I right?