Stat raising by quest

[Prolix]

I realize this is not a particularly new topic, it is however a new wrinkle I think. If not, no biggie, just lock and load!

Now I believe that there is a general consensus that buying stats is not a particularly good method for character development -- you pay so many tria and PPs and your stat just increases. I think it would be much better if instead the only way to raise your stats was to run specific errands for npcs who train skills that depend on the relevant stat. For instance a Smith might ask you to go and dig 10 copper ore for him and part of the reward would be one point of increased strength, a Poet might ask you to go recite his composition to his lover and your reward might be one point of charisma. Lower level increases would be gained from lower level practitioners and similar for higher level increases. Generally speaking rewards would be limited to one point but there could be extra given for prompt completion.

This would require, of course, some method of determining that the specific action requested was done so that in the case of the ore production if you do not mine the ore yourself you would get no stat increase. While this may be difficult to implement I do not think it would be impossible and would seem more realistic than the current method. There ought to be enough skills and trainers so that each character would have the ability to advance without learning all the skills.

[neko kyouran]

This would require, of course, some method of determining that the specific action requested was done so that in the case of the ore production if you do not mine the ore yourself you would get no stat increase. While this may be difficult to implement I do not think it would be impossible and would seem more realistic than the current method. There ought to be enough skills and trainers so that each character would have the ability to advance without learning all the skills.

Thats typically been solved in other games by having the quest npc give you a task to get an item that can only be gotten while you have the quest active, so that it ensures that you and only you, have gone out and gotten the items needed for the quest.  So in your example with the iron ore, say the quest npc tells to go get him some special iron ore form a spooky cave of darkness, because the npc is too scared to go in there and get it himself, so you go in and do a /dig spooky iron ore (or whatever name it is) and get some and bring it out to him.  And if you don't have the quest to get it and try to dig for it, you'd find nothing over and over again, as you don't have the quest, so IC'ly, you don't know what to look for, as the quest npc tells you how to find it.

[Prolix]

True enough but they also go further by identifying the character that generated the quest item. I am thinking here specifically about silk road and its "blue bag" which has the characters name on it. This is to prevent players from harvesting a super-abundance of the quest item to sell to other players. I think that game also had a counter that stopped the production once the needed item were in inventory but I may be mis-remembering.

It may be possible to find another way to keep track...

[Jeraphon]

Settings has discussed giving skill levels as quest rewards. Let's just say, we haven't completely ruled it out as a possibility.

[Nikodemus]

But it wouldn't be nice if a character wouldn't be able to gain strength, because he couldn't communicate with a NPC. You don't need to be smart with words to be strong, but if the game mechanics proved otherwise... you get the point.
+ there are some people who dont complete quests, because of IC reasons, but their characters proves to be very smart.
Just pointing out some big drawbacks someone forgot about ;P

[Prolix]

Ah, but this is not about skill leveling but rather stats ... unless you are adamant about equating them then at least require the stat increases to be practiced by use of relevant skills. Thus, currently, increasing intelligence, willpower and wisdom would require successfully casting magic of one of the ways that depends on that stat, for example, instead of just 'you pays yer money, you gets yer stat.'

The status quo needs modification. I just thought that all that running around that is required for some of the quests should have some health benefits and expanded from there.

Still this is all just talk, discussion not demands.

Nik so how did your character get to be so smart? Poor ability to play the character as generated? The problem with a role playing game as opposed to just role playing is that the characters start out at low levels and some people cannot accept that they need to be developed. This idea is to give those characters more incentive to do the quests and these quests are meant to be aside from the expository ones which inform about the settings. It is true there are problems with the quests but the kind of quest I envisioned for this purpose is straight forward and require you to actually use the stat that is being improved.

We could go to a system where you character is randomly generated and can never be improved but it would not be much of a game then.

[Nikodemus]

Pro, you are not listening. And no, i was not talking about my character.
You are creating system for your own group of people and you forget about everyone who roleplay. You have to while proposing solutions for a game like PS.
Gain of stats through different kinds of tasks is actually a good idea, but the context you put it in isn't good enough IMO. + a wishlist without listed badsides near the goodsides isn't well thought wish.

[bond304]

You could just make the quest item untradable and if u drop it, it tells you it will be destroyed forever and dropping it will make it disappear.

[Seraj]

Quests provide a way to improve ur faction numbers and also provide you some 'material' reward. It would be great if the player has a choice of whether he/she wants the 'material' reward or stats or skills. It provides a great way to avoid the grinding just to gain additional stats or skills.

For example, I learn to use my sword on rats and then go on to mercs, clackers,rogues, trepors et al. I dont need to do this 'grind'
just because I want to see my sword level go up from 10 to 20. I would rather take an ardous quest that sends me all over Yliakum, to be finally rewarded some 'x' skill levels at the end of it. It is way more fun than grinding zilllion tefusangs in the arena.

It just gives an alternate to the same monotony and maybe 'powerleveling' would become 'powerquesting'. I guess thats more closer to roleplaying

[StitchedChin]

I like this idea and was thinking about it when I first started playing PS.  Having this as one of the venues to gaining stats makes much more sense than using PPs and trias gained by doing something completely unrelated;  ie. why I can max charisma by killing trepors and mining platinum, still seems strange to me.  I guess I can see my character is paying for ettiquette lessons, but it should take time to improve and there should be evidence of me actually using that stat, instead of maxing it out with some simple clicks of the button and in less than a couple hours.

Example would be to train Endurance, then actually running a certain distance or be active for a while before it levels up, like skills.  Each stat can be levelled in different ways so that it is more related to roleplaying.  This is actually starting to sound like how Elder Scrolls does it, train Strength, then once you use a skill that is related to strength, like mining or heavy armor, then your Strength levels up.  Quests should be part of this though, so if a NPC wants you to learn something or answer some questions, then when you accomplish it, it adds to your intelligence.  But, also if you don't do quests, then you can train Intelligence by interacting with the community or learning new skills that are best related to intelligence.  Hmm, I wonder if this copyrighted by the makers of Elder Scrolls.  Everything can always be improved on though, except maybe chocolate cake.

[Adder]

Hmm, I wonder if this copyrighted by the makers of Elder Scrolls. 

Game ideas are not protected by copyright and also game mechanics.
Although you never know with the state US IP rights regarding software are in.

[Shaman]

This idea pretty much forces people to quest. While I particularly have no problem with that, I know many other people would.

[Prolix]

Everything can always be improved on though, except maybe chocolate cake.

Add fudge to the icing/batter.

The thing is that it is not really questing in the normal PS sense --> run around talk to people solve riddles <-- but rather just do the things that practice the given stat whatever it might be. It is more directed learning than just errand running. Perhaps NPC A gives you Strength training and also teaches melee. He might require you to fight x number of skill level appropriate creatures without weapons. NPC B might teach climbing (in the future) as well as Agility. He might require you to go pick a flower from a difficult to climb summit. No NPC would train a stat without also training a skill related to that stat. There would be room for more stat trainers as there would be various ways to practice.

[Under the moon]

That depends entirely how you define 'quest'. Giving stats would not likely follow the general quest format you are used to.

[StitchedChin]

My understanding from Prolix was this would be in addition to the current way of leveling, so it isn't forcing you to quest, but giving a broader range of players access to improving their stats and skills instead of camping and mining.  I was totally "behind" a lot of other characters when I started because I concentrated on quests instead of just mining and leveling, though I had felt like I had accomplished a lot in the game.  Now if you go by factions, then yep, I have some nice ones.  But this also gives a more relevant reward to the quests instead of PPs and trias.  If a quest has to do with melee, carrying something, learning something, making a long journey, convincing someone to do something, then why shouldn't that affect the stats you used to accomplish the quest.  It doesn't have to be much either, I was hoping for a simple little +1 to endurance from time to time on those long journied quests.

Aren't there already training type of "quests" linked to a certain skill and the improvement in that skill.  Some even give you the first level's worth of training.  Going back and reading Prolix's last response, sounds like more interactive tasks to raise the stats from an NPC would be more fun.  Instead of just hitting a button to raise your strength, the NPC gives you something to accomplish first before you "deserve" that stat boost?  So you can go to an NPC and say "Train me in Agility", and they'd say, "Try to take the pebble from my hand, grasshopper."  or something to that effect.  I like that idea as well if that is also what you are thinking.

Not fudge, that makes it a fudge chocolate cake, a totally different dessert  .